Amaz0ns - Condi Has Pipes

cpbell0033944 - VP Condi?

| Registered | 2008-04-07 07:17:12

Nooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooo
o!

Yet more reason why either Hilary or Obama must win!

Lingster - LOL

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-07 08:08:20

Yeah, don't hold your breath on that one. I'd say the odds are 70/30 for McCain right now.

cpbell0033944 - re: LOL

| Registered | 2008-04-07 17:12:05

Lingster wrote:

Yeah
, don't hold your breath on that one. I'd say the odds are 70/30 for McCain right now.

Possibly. I'm not too worried about McCain, except for his belief in the necessity of stayin in Iraq for 100 years, and his ignorance of economics, but Condi scares the crap out of me.

Lingster - re: re: LOL

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-07 21:00:17

cpbell0033944
wrote:

Possibly. I'm not too worried about McCain, except for his belief in the necessity of stayin in Iraq for 100 years, and his ignorance of economics, but Condi scares the crap out of me.

We've been in the Philippines for MORE than 100 years, not counting the brutal Japanese occupation during WW2. We've had significant forces continuously in Germany and Japan for 63 years and in Korea for nearly as long. And we'll be in Iraq for as long as we're needed and wanted, the same as those other places, or until Americans decide to bring those troops home. McCain said nothing more than that, and despite Democrat and socialist attempts to portray it otherwise, nothing controversial.

twicedead

| Registered | 2008-04-07 20:17:14

that's what she thinks. McCain would be smart to stay away from Bush holdovers. I'm a McCain guy and former volunteer but would have qualms with anyone in the Bush camp in the white house. Her Arab policies have been awful. The fact she had an Oil Tanker named for her with gas over 3.30 a gallon wouldn't go over well. I think that's the best case scenerio for Obama. Romney would be my choice.

Lingster - Heh

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-07 21:10:42

Bush holdover or not, Condi's smarter and more qualified for the top spot than anybody else in the race, bar none. In addition to all that, she's a relatively young black woman, and thus a huge asset against the Democrats who will not be able to put both a woman and an African-American on the ticket this year - the Democrats can have one or the other but not both.

Lingster - NRO

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-08 11:47:22

National Review's Ramesh Ponnuru agrees with you, though he expresses that ironically.

alex	\| Registered \| 2008-04-07 21:48:11

IMO, Condoleezza Rice is not even qualified to become a super in my building.

She has the stench of the Bush administration and the 9/11 intelligence fiasco all over. McCain would have to be an idiot to want to have any association with her.

Lingster

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-07 23:03:08

You mean the fiasco that the hijackers were already well ensconced in the US before Bush was even elected because no administration took Islamic terror seriously from 1979 until 2001?

alex	\| Registered \| 2008-04-08 06:18:36

I meant the fiasco where in july of 2001 when CIA Director George Tenet told her of the impending 9/11 attack, and she brushed him aside, laughed, and ignored his warnings. Then lied to the 9/11 Commission (and the whole nation) about it. That fiasco.

I'm not saying she was alone on this, but SHE was the Security Advisor at the time, and thus should hold a great deal of responsability for what happened.

Lingster - Haha

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-08 08:12:18

"Brushed him aside" and "laughed?" I think you're letting yourself get caught up in hyperbole.

9/11 was able to happen because we Americans and Westerners in general did not grasp the depths of depravity of fundamentalist Muslims. Once the people on the fourth plane realized what was happening, they rose up and shut down the last stage of the plan. If the people on the first three planes had grasped it, they would have done the same.

There is no security plan or intelligence plan that is going to be able to stop a dozen or two dozen unknown men from engaging in mischief. We have to rely on free citizens to react as the situation merits, when these occur. Now that the wool has been pulled back from our eyes, and we see Islam for what it is (whether we admit it or not) we're far better prepared.

I won't hold it against Condi Rice, George Tenet, Bill Clinton or Louis Freeh, when I myself could also not have imagined that such a thing was possible. I was in the World Trade Center almost every day, and every day I worried about a satchel bomb going off while I was there. It never occurred to me to be worried about two airplanes crashing into the complex or the complex being totally destroyed, despite the fact that I had seen the concept played out on an episode of "The Lone Gunmen" (an "X-Files" spin-off), several months before, and was fully aware that knocking over the towers had been the main goal of the 1993 attack.

alex	\| Registered \| 2008-04-08 09:52:37

Simply put, it wasn't your job, or the general American public's, to be paranoid and very cautious about such threats, it was HER job as security advisor. Her responsibility.

But instead of admitting the huge mistake she made, she found it more convenient to just lie to the congress and the whole American nation about it and say she didn't even remember having those meetings with George Tenet.

Apparently, having the government lying about CIA reports, WMD's other "small things" isn't something very serious in your opinion, or the American people's, considering Bush's reelection.

Lingster - It is my job

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-08 10:13:05

It is my job. I am not a subject of a king or a member of a tribe; I am a free citizen and it's my role (and yours) to stay well-informed and bring my concerns to my representatives in my state capital and in Washington.

I studied it and thought I understood the thread of Islamism, but I was wrong. I'm not going to hold it against someone else who made the same error.

alex	\| Registered \| 2008-04-08 10:36:12

Oh..c'mon! If the guy who was head of the freaking CIA couldn't get his concerns taken seriously, what chance would you, or any other concerned citizen have?

Lingster - Tenet

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-08 10:50:17

We only have Tenet's description of the incident. In my experience, there are usually two sides to a story.

And FWIW, the CIA's inspector general laid ultimate responsibility at Tenet's feet. Which is a terrible, terrible thing and not fair. However: the fact that the CIA could not give the Clinton or Bush administrations conclusive information about the plot is hardly the fault of White House personnel.

cpbell0033944 - Failures

| Registered | 2008-04-08 12:02:12

From reading the abc news article, it seems that the blame needs to be shared. Tenet and the CIA didn't do enough, but neither did Condi or others within the administration. To dump all the blame on Tenet seems like an easy way out for Condi, though.

I don't know whether this is a popular saying in the US, but over here we often say "There's none so blind as those who do not want to see". Isn't this a case of the Bush administration in 2001 having a fixation on Saddam and not taking the threat from Al-Quaeda seriously because they felt that it would sway them from their preferred course?

I really don't doubt Rice's intellect. Her IQ is almost certainly much higher than mine, but she has shown herself to be a true Neocon and hawkish, and, after 8 years of Neoconservatism, is it not time for something else? any government, whether good, bad or indifferent can get stale.

Lingster

| Super Administrator | 2008-04-08 12:15:59

CP, the Bush Administration had been in office less than 8 months when the attack occurred. The attack had been planned for at least five years and the men who implemented it were ensconced in the U.S. or Canada well before Bush took office, and largely autonomous from their command hierarchy.

I'm not sure what people think could have been done at that point. The idea that 19 men armed only with small utility knives could inflict that kind of damage was revolutionary and hardly anyone was prepared for it.

Two men who were prepared for it - for years prior - were John O'Neill and Rick Rescorla. They were both brilliant, brave men who were aware of the asymmetrical threat and took security jobs at the World Trade Center. And they both died on 9/11.

cpbell0033944 - Heroes

| Registered | 2008-04-08 16:16:45

Of course those guys were heroes, and I'm not saying that the Clinton administration were blameless. What I am saying is that the blame should be shared by all who failed to act properly, not just loaded on one scapegoat to leave the administration, either current or past, look whiter than white.

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