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Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
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Topic: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one? (Read 3214 times)
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AlexG
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #8 on:
Jan 22, 2008, 07:46 AM »
Quote from: Hunter S Creek on Jan 21, 2008, 01:01 PM
Cool topic, Alex!
Thank you, I figured that you find this subject intellectual intriguing.
Quote
Although I try to add some depth and a sense of development to my characters, they do live in a decidedly wholesome universe. Other than some relatively mild sexual situations, they tend not to partake in much that would be considered illegal or immoral. If I did include a character who ran counter to this, she/he'd be a villain and would undoubtedly have his/her comeuppance
The illegal or immoral, part came up in the back of my mind, as something of a libertarian example for discussion. I can recall many yrs back some stories that I came across where it seemed just about every female character was using gear to boost their physiques, but was not without its long term consequences to them, physically, as a result of their usage.
Quote
And, I should mention, it is precisely this lack of spice and sex, that usually accounts for most of the criticisms that I receive. Fortunately there have been some readers over the years who point to the relative wholesomeness as a positive respite from the usual.
Then you're in good company, Hi-Standard was much the same.
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #9 on:
Jan 22, 2008, 02:56 PM »
Quote from: Hunter S Creek on Jan 21, 2008, 01:01 PM
I should mention, it is precisely this lack of spice and sex, that usually accounts for most of the criticisms that I receive.
That's pretty much par for the course.
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ScottG
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #10 on:
Jan 23, 2008, 08:25 AM »
Quote from: AlexG on Jan 22, 2008, 07:22 AM
I believe you may have misunderstood me, I only included enhancement drugs to be all-inclusive, rather then restricting the parameters of the thread to only recreational-type drugs. The use of gear, in my opinion qualities as a vice, even if don't get a direct chemical high off if it.
(Though some would point to the increased sexual drive and power-strength while using gear as form of chemically induced high, too, so I'm not going to argue against that part.)
The central question is about vice in the form of alcohol and/or drugs as an element to a story, as pertaining to certain characters. Again, I stressed the fact (see my original posting) that it could be anyone, the hero, the heroine, the villain, the villainette or one of the supporting characters, major or minor of the story.
My bad. I belive there was a misunderstanding on my part. In the case of alcohol, I could see using it somehow, but I am adamantly against drugs of any kind (not even that big on prescriptions) so I would say - no, I would not use those in a story.
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The_Collector_2
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #11 on:
Jan 23, 2008, 10:37 AM »
For me the answer lies in who is going to see or read my story and what the character symbolizes.
For instance,
If I'm creating a superhero that will have a high chance of children seeing the story I will remove any references to drugs, alcohol, and even smoking as these kids will look at these characters as role models. If my characters are going to set an example then I will do what I can to make that example something that they SHOULD follow.
Now...
If I don't have a young mind demographic this allows me more freedom to experiment with different characters. There are certain places where a character with an addiction is simply perfect for the story in mind and I would present it in the most tasteful fashion possible. However, it's very rare that include those types of characters in say FMG stories because I don't like the girls I tend to idolize to have a plague of bad habits with them. I think transforming into a berserk she-hulk is enough of a problem as it is, she doesn't need to be doing drugs at the same time!
The opportunities for me to use those types of characters is very rare for me, but if I'm inspired and the story calls for it then it would certainly make an appearance.
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KeithXZ
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #12 on:
Mar 02, 2008, 06:42 PM »
In general I think you'd want to be guided by what your character would do. If you are writing for adults, even in a morality play you want the characters to be realistic.
If your character is consumed with concerns of health, strength and endurance, consider:
a) "Would a person like that smoke?"
b) "Would a person that use a particular kind of drug?"
So generally:
They won't smoke tobacco, unless they are really dumb.
They won't do drugs that
they believe
are harmful to the body.
If they are diabetic they will take their insulin.
They probably will take a ASA or acetaminophen if they have a headache.
They might take steroids, because
they are thinking
about short term benefit, not potential long harm.
They won't take crack or heroin because those drugs are quickly harmful to the body. Any short term bliss is quickly outweighed, in their value system, by the damage to the body.
I go along with the "heroes for children and teens should be squeaky clean" principle.
One could take morality even further: Superheros should have to earn their powers in some way.
Having superpowers arbitrarily granted discourages children and teens from the principle that
achievements are the rewards for effort
. (In the bodybuilding industry: no pain no gain.)
Buffy TVS is part way towards this. As a slayer, she is born with the potential, but you frequently see her training to turn that potential into reality. To me this is more moral than the original 1960s squeaky clean superman, who is super-powered simply by the accidental good fortune of being born Kryptonian. He didn't do anything to earn his superpowers.
Same deal with intelligence and money. Although a lot of the wealth in the world is inherited, if you are trying to promote morality, it is more moral to have your heroes earn for their wealth. Villains can inherit wealth.
I agree that it would require a lot of thought and a long plot to have a write a morality play describing some character putting in the effort to earn superpowers.
Of course the stories here are seldom morality plays, so this point about earning superpowers doesn't really matter.
Anyway, those are my opinions.
In the old days (pre-1970s), tobacco companies ensured that most heroes in films smoked. I've even seen characters smoking in submarines in the cheapest old WWII films. This was part of tobacco marketing. It drew away from making the character realistic.
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evansnowwolf
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Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #13 on:
Mar 02, 2008, 08:05 PM »
Quote from: KeithXZ on Mar 02, 2008, 06:42 PM
In general I think you'd want to be guided by what your character would do. If you are writing for adults, even in a morality play you want the characters to be realistic.
If your character is consumed with concerns of health, strength and endurance, consider:
a) "Would a person like that smoke?"
b) "Would a person that use a particular kind of drug?"
So generally:
They won't smoke tobacco, unless they are really dumb.
They won't do drugs that
they believe
are harmful to the body.
If they are diabetic they will take their insulin.
They probably will take a ASA or acetaminophen if they have a headache.
They might take steroids, because
they are thinking
about short term benefit, not potential long harm.
They won't take crack or heroin because those drugs are quickly harmful to the body. Any short term bliss is quickly outweighed, in their value system, by the damage to the body.
I go along with the "heroes for children and teens should be squeaky clean" principle.
One could take morality even further: Superheros should have to earn their powers in some way.
Having superpowers arbitrarily granted discourages children and teens from the principle that
achievements are the rewards for effort
. (In the bodybuilding industry: no pain no gain.)
Buffy TVS is part way towards this. As a slayer, she is born with the potential, but you frequently see her training to turn that potential into reality. To me this is more moral than the original 1960s squeaky clean superman, who is super-powered simply by the accidental good fortune of being born Kryptonian. He didn't do anything to earn his superpowers.
Same deal with intelligence and money. Although a lot of the wealth in the world is inherited, if you are trying to promote morality, it is more moral to have your heroes earn for their wealth. Villains can inherit wealth.
I agree that it would require a lot of thought and a long plot to have a write a morality play describing some character putting in the effort to earn superpowers.
Of course the stories here are seldom morality plays, so this point about earning superpowers doesn't really matter.
Anyway, those are my opinions.
In the old days (pre-1970s), tobacco companies ensured that most heroes in films smoked. I've even seen characters smoking in submarines in the cheapest old WWII films. This was part of tobacco marketing. It drew away from making the character realistic.
Sadly, this sounds too much to me like the old idea that a strong work ethic and being a hard worker gets you ahead in life, which is blatantly false. Time and time again I've seen promotions and benefits handed out to those that shared a last name, or were close friends. Or people that kissed the most ass. In general the hardest workers tend to stay nothing more than grunts, cause they are good at it and management wants them there. Its the worthless brown nosers that go up the chain of command.
I've had far, FAR too many jobs were I worked ten times as hard to earn one-third the pay.
The moral? Shoulda started my own business.
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Prophet Tenebrae
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Posts: 851
Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #14 on:
Mar 02, 2008, 08:27 PM »
I'll say this, there's a lot to be said for the security of a faceless corporation rewarding your inefficiency, working for yourself or your own business... you can be inefficient... sure but you're just fucking yourself.
Anyway. Currently, I've got a story where a girl finds a recreational drug - I suppose it's like viagra squared - that usually just has minor effects to the body makes her get big... initially, she loves it. Somewhat ironically, her roomie gets addicted to the effects, so covertly feeds it to her.
So, somewhat.. grey, ethically.
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demented20
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Posts: 106
Cavé Canem
Re: Substance-using Characters - Would you include one?
«
Reply #15 on:
Mar 03, 2008, 01:43 AM »
Quote from: evansnowwolf on Mar 02, 2008, 08:05 PM
Sadly, this sounds too much to me like the old idea that a strong work ethic and being a hard worker gets you ahead in life, which is blatantly false. Time and time again I've seen promotions and benefits handed out to those that shared a last name, or were close friends. Or people that kissed the most ass. In general the hardest workers tend to stay nothing more than grunts, cause they are good at it and management wants them there. Its the worthless brown nosers that go up the chain of command.
I've had far, FAR too many jobs were I worked ten times as hard to earn one-third the pay.
The moral? Shoulda started my own business.
I started my own business 4 years ago, and let me tell you that there is still ass that must be kissed. Its just that you're kissing up to clients and not to bosses. Same thing, but when you work for yourself and you don't kiss up then you don't miss out on a promotion, you don't eat.
Just wanted to drop that in there... On to substance using characters..
This thread has been going for a while, and at first I sort of lumped it in with the "smoking character" thread, but there is a difference since smoking and drinking are legal, and this thread's talking about drugs.
Some people have brought up the age of the readers, and this hadn't really occurred to me because I didn't even discover FM stories until I was 18. There is something to the fact that younger people might read a story not knowing that there is drug use or that a character has a really dark side. I thought about it and then I realized that I read "Silence of the Lambs" when I was 13 or 14. I read "The Shining" when I was 13 or so, and the list goes on. So it would depend on how mature the reader is more than the age.
Besides, there are lots of sexually mature stories written in the FM genre. I think there's plenty of room for other mature topics to be included besides just sex and violence.
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