Part 4,

Last qoute:

I did that in my 2nd post, whether or not it was sufficient, is debatable.

Look, I love fbb's, I love FMG, I have been an active, contributng member of the fbb/fmg community both off and online (though, admittidly not at this site so much but certaintly others under manyyyy alias's). I simply do no believe that any male or female competing at or above JD's level is natural. I believe this because of both conventional, proven BB wisdom and more importantly because of biological facts.

One final though: I know some of you must workout here, some of you must work out to "get huge" or "ripped". Many of you are guys, so just for a moment, for those of you who do work out for muscle growth, think about yourself, a male remember, who has putting in workout after workout, year after year to the gym. Now lets focus on those of you who have put in 5 natural, consistent, well deit'ed years. How do you look? I'd be willing to bet that most of you dont look as good (muscular development wise and certaintly muscle size wise in proportion to height AND body fat) as even a national level fbb (on, mid, or offseason). Think back on those 5 hard years of sweat from hours of pumping iron, and swallowing those terrible protein shakes after every workout. Did u gain 25lbs of water, carbs, fat, and muscle? Proboblly, but maybe not, I dont know any of you. Now imagine an average girl with literally 1/13th of your muscle building power doing what you did over 5 years... 

Even if JD has amazing genetics (which clearly she does), her body simply cannot produce the levels of testosterone needed to get muscles big enough to compete on that stage.

Before you immidiatly flame me, at least look in medical journals or talk to an "expert" about what I am saying (although I think you should be research first because it will be more powerful to you).

Again, I'm not a bad guy, I have a problem with none of you, and none of this is intended to insult any of you on any level. I love the female muscle community but I sincerly believe that every (male of female) fitness, figure, or BB'er on the nationl/ pro stage juices, takes hgh, insulin, or a combo of all 3.

Apology accepted. Weather I agree with you or not I can appreciate that you are able to discuss your thoughts without name calling.   We don't like that here on this board and the moderators do an excellent job (WAY TO GO GUYS!!!) of keeping the peace. We are all adults and conduct ourselves as such even though we do have our more childish   moments from a time to time.

It's okay if we have people on the board with different vews and opinions so that we can discuss our diffences of thought and weigh them. I'm still going to disagree with you (and its okay that you feel differently, I'm not trying to change your mind I'm just staiting my thoughts) that there isn't any women who have a wonderful gift geneticaly to build muscle because humanity is so vast and comes in so many shapes and sizes. I know its unlikely but there have been women over seven feet tall and there really isn't a drug you can take for that.   So if a woman can be over seven feet tall why not have another who can build some muscle?

Those are my thoughts and I thank you for yours sir.

Interesting comments guys. I'd like to come back on a couple of GreyFox's points:

On the idea of us guys comparing our own BBing efforts to FBBs like Johanna: I agree there's no way I can build muscle like Johanna naturally. But that doesn't mean others can't. eg. As a child in school I was just a bag of bones, straight up and down. But other guys had 'mini He-Man' type bodies from day one. Not thru any exercise - just genetics. So projecting your own experience onto others isn't always valid.

I've talked to Johanna about about her pre-show diet and it is extreme beyond any experience of mine. eg. Drinking practically nothing for the last 2 weeks before contest. And off-season she eats like a horse - masses of veggies too - with an obsessive attention to weights, measures and regularity. Again - way beyond my experience. Who knows what I'd look like if I had her will-power and committment. We'll never know cos I'm too lazy and fond of eating junk.


I fail to see why these guys should be considered the source of all wisdom. Many have been juicing since very early in their career's, so how are they qualified to say what a gifted natty like Jo can or can't achieve after 15 years of natural training?

Re the idea that some guys can take roids without any sides. True, but I find women's bodies tend to be more sensitive to the ravages of these drugs. Few women are able to avoid all side effects.

Finally, what's Jo's motivation for lying about her natural status when she's competing in non-tested competitions like the North Americans? It doesn't give her any advantage. Drugs are widely used and accepted by her competitors. What's her motivation? Is she just a compulsive liar? And why would she start a website called 'Naturally Built' in 2002 if she was quietly juicing all the while? Seems risky to me. She might start exhibiting side effects any day then look like a stupid fraud. Surely it would be better just to do what everyone else does and not mention drugs. Unless she really is natural.

As Johanna says in her AMG profile:

"I believe anyone can obtain their desired look naturally through planned nutrition and exercise."

Actually I don't believe just anyone can, but it's a commendable sentiment - and an inspiration for us all to try.

well guys, my only comment here on this matter is, and I really think that JD is natural, but it seem almost everybody here has omitted the fact that she has compited in drug-tested events. I mean, if there are shows where BBs are tested, and she compites, then, the most likely thing to asume if that she is natural. I don't know how much it would take, to "clean-up" you system from any performance enhancing drug, but, for ehat I heard and read, it's not like you dump the juice and you can contiinue working out jsut like that, your body feels the lack of those drugs, and you can't keep up your workouts.

just my 2 cents