It always suprises me how people like greyfox here have no problem with women permanently damaging their health and appearance thru steroid abuse. But should a woman succeed the old fashioned way - naturally, thru hard work and perseverance over a 13 year competitive career - they get called a cheat and a liar and have their achievements rubbished.

I agree it's kinda pointless debating it further though. The only thing we can conclusively prove is that Greyfox is a libelous bigot.

Anyway - congratulations to Johanna on her Pro card and the vindication of her decision to stay natural.

Acctually you can't conclude that I am a "libelous bigot" because none of you can prove me wrong for the simple fact that you dont KNOW that JD hasent taken roids; nor can you provide any explanation/defense to the medical facts i cited earlier (other than JD's word or the belief that there are exceptional cases in medical science).

In addition, those women who take those drugs do so on their on behalf and should be mature and responsible enough not do to so when endangering their health; I never once pushed for women to take roids, I only addmited that I like the look that they produce (like many of you here, im sure).

To conclude, I would like to note that I not once gave any snyde remarks or took part in childish name calling; exactly like what has been done to me.

Jdfan You may disagree with me, maybe you dont like me, but at least I can say that I debated a touchy subject without stooping to your level. If I am wrong about JD that I will glady take back my opinion, but I doubt that I am.

Dude, you came into a pro Johanna thread and repeatedly stated in an arrogant and complacent manner that Johanna takes steroids - side-stepping or rubbishing the substantial evidence and arguments others posted in her defence.

As regards name calling - you are effectively calling Johanna a liar (since she claims to be natural) and a cheat (since she has won many natural BBing contests). These are serious allegations without a shread of proof - just your complacent statement that it's 'impossible' for Jo to be natural based on what the pro-steroid BB establishment say.

The thread had moved on to Johanna's Pro card victory - but you choose to restart the argument by again rubbishing the CBBF doping tests and by refusing to conceed that passing tests repeatedly over a 10 year period makes it any more likely she really is natural.

Libelous = maliciously defamatory. I think that's an accurate description of your allegations.

Bigot = a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

OK - maybe 'utterly intolerant' is too strong. But you're certainly smug, complacent and unwilling to conceed that you might not be right all the time.

OK - I'm ready to move on to discussing how great Johanna looks now.

IMHO your opening statement was malicious defamation:
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but you present this like a statement of fact when actually, your 'evidence' is no more than the second hand opinions from steroid users who have a vested interest in smearing natural athletes.

The facts are: Hard exercise and good nutrition build muscle. Certain drugs help build muscle but often produce unwanted side effects. Johanna has no side effects and has tested negative for banned substances many times over a 10 year period. In addition Johanna has staked her reputation on being natural and has no reason to lie since drugs are widely accepted in the sport.

We agreed testing is not perfect - but a number of athletes *have* tested positive at Johanna's competitions over the years. Therefore by submitting herself to those tests for over 10 years, there is at least *some* likelyhood that Jo actually is natural.

Another piece of evidence I would add: slow rate of change. Jo's build hasn't changed dramatically since she first appeared on the scene. She just slowly improves each year. Again, this is consistent with natural training. Unlike some girls who add a massive amount of muscle in a few short years.


By your own admission there is nothing J can do to prove she is natural - so clearly you will never take back your statements.


Fortunately you side stepped the motive question to save us from more baseless accusations and character slurs. Thanks for that.

To justify your allegations you'd need to produce either:

a) a visible side effect
b) a positive test result.

You have neither which makes your allegations baseless malicious defamation. Please lets not hear any more of your BS in this thread.