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October 20, 2008 at 3:23 pm #77072
AlexGKeymasterSort of news to me, I thought MDM all-but-ended coverage several years ago – the same for the other *mainstream mags.
*Well, to be fair, Planet Muscle (if you can find it) does do a decent job in the profiling feature department.
Anyway, a poll similar to this one has been running for a while @ Unrealmuscle and I thought that maybe the interested members of Amaz0ns might want to express themselves, too, on this subject.
So this poll doesn't get lost in the shuffle, I'm going to temporarily set this thread as sticky.
“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)October 20, 2008 at 7:37 pm #77073BlackKusanagi
ParticipantThe fact it says that clearly shows that the media's loosing intrest int he sport. They cant do that…if they really want the industry to survive dammit, they HAVE to keep covering it. Or FBBing will be a thing of the past like HD-DVD's.
October 20, 2008 at 9:46 pm #77074AlexGKeymasterThe fact it says that clearly shows that the media's loosing intrest int he sport. They cant do that…if they really want the industry to survive dammit, they HAVE to keep covering it. Or FBBing will be a thing of the past like HD-DVD's.
Hmmm, since you brought it up . . . I didn't originally plan to post this, but there's an interesting post by the Herbiceps rep about this subject. I don't doubt what he has to say, if anything it only confirms my worst suspicions about those running the BBing mags.
The last paragraph of his post being the pertinent part.
Source: http://www.unrealmuscle.com/forum/index.php/topic,11649.0.html
I've had subscriptions to most of the big ones for years. You may or may not remember this, but 15-20 years ago it was very common for there to be multiple features per issue on female bodybuilders and female bodybuilders on the covers of the magazines was very common. I remember when the coverage of the Ms Olympia would get a half a dozen or more pages in Flex. That's how I got into female bodybuilding in the first place. There may have been an issue here or there without much in it about female bodybuilders.
At some point, all that changed…I'd love for it to change back…but not holding my breath…
Now Gene and Tre and I and some others who run very prominent websites that actually place female bodybuilding first above the other physique divisions would love to actually cover the sport properly and provide recognition, but we aren't granted press credentials. So not only do they choose not to provide much coverage in the magazines, the IFBB/NPC has an active policy to keep those who'd like to from doing so. Gene still does a helluva job of course…I gave up a while back and maybe I shouldn't have…but the point remains the same….that the powers that be don't seem to care all that much about female bodybuilding.
I actually had a conversation with the editor of Flex magazine's wife a couple years ago at the Olympia and I told her about how many people really loved female bodybuilding, that our websites were very popular and that they might reconsider covering the sport more…but she flat out told me she didn't like what female bodybuilding was all about, the look of the athletes and that most of the people running the magazines felt the same way. I believed her.
“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)October 20, 2008 at 10:00 pm #77075
fasolaParticipantMan, I'm pissed. First can somebody explain me WTF they mean by "didn't like what female bodybuilding was all about". I don't get it. The male side of the sport has gone down the same way,but they keep on suporting or endorsing it. The idea of people working out for a better life is long gone.
Man, I'm pissed.
October 21, 2008 at 3:10 pm #77076cpbell0033944
ParticipantThis opens-up multiple cans of worms that needed opening sooner or later. Two issue are at play here; the lack of commercial saleability of FBBing at the top end, and the lack of interest that the governing body show.
I'd like for a moment to compare this to my favourite sport, F1. A few years ago, the FIA, the governing body, tried to push-thrugh legislation and new ways of running the sport that the teams didn't like, especially those run by major car manufacturers (Toyota, Honda, BMW etc.) They threatened to form a breakaway championship, and this led indirectly to changes being made which suited all perties. Now, this unity has led to all teams, including Ferrari, which is usually supportive of the FIA, and independents such as Williams, Red Bull and Force India, to join together and form an organisation which will enable the teams to negociate with the FIA with a single voice.
Taking this back to FBBing, the same thing needs to happen. The women need to cme together and threaten to market themselves as a breakaway series or organisation, with more commercial attractivenes for TV, sponsors, magazines etc. (maybe strict drug-testing, diffrent presentation or judging criteria) as any short-term ifficulty in changing training or approach to suit a fresh approach would be repaid handsomely). Let's face it, there is a golden opportunity now with all these attractive young FBBers getting established – a new series with the Kira Neumans, Cindy Phillips and Megan abshires would, I'm sure be more attractive to the casual viewer and fan of Figure-type physiues than the extremes of the Iris Kyle-type appearance which has its devotees but is unlikely to attract new fans.
October 21, 2008 at 3:35 pm #77077AlexGKeymasterThe as reported negative FBBing attitude with the inside circles of the mag publishers is bad enough, but in my mind what's worse is the stance of the organizing body in blocking off coverage by interested parties by denying them press credentials.
Point being, if the mags don't want to give the women publicity / exposure and there are reputable individuals / photogs like Gene, Tre, etal who will do it instead, then what's it to them anyway? Unless, the intention (pure speculation on my part) is to finish the process of squeezing out the girls from the lit'l boys club.
(Already have in the area of prize money, check the differential in amounts awared men vs women – it's a shameful disgrace, has been for years now.)
Of course, they can't overtly do it. That could and most likely would trigger legal troubles – but by slow attrition they can achieve it, then they'll have the cover of saying: Oh look, it's not financially viable – not enough people attend, not enough women participate, there's few or no sponsers interested, so we're going to discontinue the women's BBing portion entirely. Have a nice day.
Conspiracy? No, simply a groupthink consensus by those in the upper echelons who’ve never been comfortable with concept of FBBing begin with.
Man, I'm pissed. First can somebody explain me WTF they mean by "didn't like what female bodybuilding was all about". I don't get it. The male side of the sport has gone down the same way,but they keep on suporting or endorsing it. The idea of people working out for a better life is long gone.
Man, I'm pissed.
“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)October 21, 2008 at 6:05 pm #77078David C. Matthews
ParticipantTaking this back to FBBing, the same thing needs to happen. The women need to cme together and threaten to market themselves as a breakaway series or organisation, with more commercial attractivenes for TV, sponsors, magazines etc. (maybe strict drug-testing, diffrent presentation or judging criteria) as any short-term ifficulty in changing training or approach to suit a fresh approach would be repaid handsomely). Let's face it, there is a golden opportunity now with all these attractive young FBBers getting established – a new series with the Kira Neumans, Cindy Phillips and Megan abshires would, I'm sure be more attractive to the casual viewer and fan of Figure-type physiues than the extremes of the Iris Kyle-type appearance which has its devotees but is unlikely to attract new fans.
I seem to remember, many long years ago ;D an organization created for just such a purpose: promoting women's bodybuilding because the major federations weren't doing a satisfactory job. IIRC it was known as the American Federation of Women Bodybuilders (AFWB), and it was eventually absorbed into the IFBB – with the results we're seeing today.
Maybe it is time to try it again. It certainly couldn't make the situation worse…
October 21, 2008 at 9:15 pm #77079ParticipantVery interesting insight from two knowledgeable and distinguished posters. I was unaware of a previous organisation, but it sounds like the best option available. I've long felt the same as Alex on the prize money issue – I never was conned into the view that it was an unavoidable fact of life as it always seemed just too convenient. I just cannot comprehend the original decision that FBBing was undesireable; the groupthink that resulted is sadly predictable in any organisation or business infested with "yes-men".
How's about a breakaway organisation with AlexG as President? ;D 😉
October 23, 2008 at 12:33 pm #77080SammiChung
Participant1. Female Bodybuilding is set on standards derived from Male contests…this is one reason people don't take most FBB'ers seriously… very few women genetically can obtain a physique on the scale of men…this needs to stop… the women need revamped criteria and rules…that favor them in a non-drug habit forming way.
2. Females sadly are still objectified…you can't tell me that males in general, *granted maybe not here but in RL* are still under delusions that a woman is to be small and petite and seen and not heard…this again needs to stop.
3. Seeing some females not even into FBB'ing I wonder why they choose the T&A fests that are merely 'beauty' contests thinly veiled as "fitness" contests….when gradually more and more of those contestants are showing appreciable muscle gains and size and definition themselves…
4. Have you seen some 'normal' females not into either lately? I don't want to offer false hope here but them girls are getting bigger, taller, and generally more suited to physical activities…and most don't 'workout' like FBB'ers either!!
5. If women broke away now…the sport would die…kaput, end of line, end of the road, last stop on the rail, finito, fin, dead as a doornail… why? because the second they broke away legitimate business interest ceases to be a factor… they simply will be able to say rightly so, "you went and accelerated your 'sports' demise by breaking ranks."
6. The "Sport" needs to be broght back into it…period…its not about just mass, but shape, definition, height and overall weight considerations like it used to be not just lightweights and heavyweights. They need to be given a goal.. like this month's goal is… *insert desired conditioning here* or something.. and some powerful women on the board of there own companies need to pony up some definite cash awards for those who play by the rules…
7. Women's FBB needs to be held in major metropolis's not backwater towns or small venues…its a duh moment when you know Male events will be seen when held at major venues that people know about… like the local convention center.
8. Skip the trophies…who cares… go for something more relevant, like medals… something that people can see distinctly and go, "oh you won such and such in 08 I see." You know what I mean right? Medals that embody where, what, and what place… like the Gold medals of the Olympics redesigned every three years to promote the place the Olympiad is held…speaking of which…
9. Why isn't the Mr. and Mrs, Olympia held at the Olympics *(summer)* why can't the best US and best World BB'ers square off… I mean come on its not a hard thing to grasp since Olympus is the residence of the Greek Gods right? It should be in the games even if only a few countries want to participate…
10. Bodybuilding as a whole needs to be reintroduced as a sport to all, no matter what age, level, even gender… amd the freaky drug users must be banned…if even male bbing is to survive.
Forrest: That's all I have to say about that.
October 23, 2008 at 4:37 pm #77081ParticipantIn reply to Sammi:
1. Exactly. Judging women by malestandards is as ludicrous as if it were happening the other way around.
2. Yes, sadly they are, but the generally greater acceptance of buff women in the early-mid 1990s was, I think, partly stimulated by photogenic FBBers of that last era before the super-powerful steroids turned the top women into something most punters didn't want to see.
3. Some Figure competitors are big indeed, though I find fitness a bit uninteresting as it seems to me like gymnastics for grown-ups.
4. Women are getting bigger, but most seem to be getting fatter rather than stronger. If you look at slim girls on the street, most of them tend to be smaller, excepting the odd athletic girl.
5. I respectfully disagree. It could happen, of course, but, if marketed and regulated properly, FBBing should thrive, as it will no longer be subject to point 1.
6. I agree it must be about more than just size, and that more emphasis should be placed on posing routines.
7. Of course. Venues must be suitable, and this is another reason why I am convinced that FBBing will do better outside of the IFBB, as there wont be the temptation to shove the women out to some remote location away from the "main event" of the men's contest.
8. Again, I disagree. Trophies are awarded for podium finishers in motorsport and everyone knows what they mean.
9. Nice idea, but I doubt the IOC would be interested – in fact, I recall reading that the IFBB tried to get BBing included but were turned-down – ironically, one of the reasons was that new Olympic sports must have full gender equality, and the IFBB did not nclude the women's division in its application. AlexG will, I'm sure, be able to confirm.
10. I couldn't agree more. People have a justified cynical view of BBing, and separating the women's contests from the extremes of the men's events can only be a good thing.
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