[cpbell0033944]

I hope I don't seem like I'm "pushing-in" or seeming opinionated, as I hate opinionated people, and I KNOW that this really isn't the right forum for this, but…
Thing is, what I didn't mention in my first post was that one of the things that directed me towards female muscle was a growing awareness about a year ago that I was strongly pro-feminist in many of my views.  I didn't plan on mentioning this at first because it isn't "cool" for a straight guy to say that he is pro-feminist, but recent events in the UK have prompted me to write this.  (By the way, I don't pretend that I am a fully-blow feminist, as I don't feel that, as a straight man I possibly can be.  I just try and take the pro-woman view in situations where it might be under-represented.)
All UK members, and possibly some US folks too, will know what's been happening in and around Ipswich this past two or so weeks.  As I live no more than 40 miles north of that area, it has seemed scarily close to home.  I DO NOT want to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of prostitution, NOR am I giving my views on it.  I simply feel that these brutal, revolting, despicable events highlight many women's "learned weakness" as an agent that makes these depraved people's actions easier.  What would be different if we lived in a world where women were encouraged to be physically strong, fit, learned self-defence as they learn how to swim or read a book as children? 
I would be very interested to hear other member's views, particularly our female members.
Chris.

[Lu]

Maybe this should be in the free for all section, if you have that (I'm not sure since you're new..)

[cpbell0033944]

Thanks, can you tell me how to move it there, please?

[cpbell0033944]

Oops, that should have read "fully-blown feminist" meaning that I don't believe that a man can ever truly be a feminist as he has never experienced the downside of our still generally patriarchal society.  Sorry for any confusion.

[Lu]

A mod has to move it, as far as I know. I'm not a mod, so sorry, can't really help there.

I wonder if He-Boss would let me be a Mod.. haha no way..

[cpbell0033944]

OK, thanks SyberStyk.  I'll hope that one of the mods moves it.  Have you got an opinion on the point I raised?  Has anyone else got an opinion, or am I alone in my views?

[Lu]

Ok.. on the prostitute murders..
To be honest I can't say I hold such a profession in any kind of regard because it's sleazy, dangerous, and more often than not fuelled by drug addiction. There are some who are still going out even though they have been warned not to, and yet we have 4 bodies already. They would rather risk their life than stop fuelling their drug addiction. I know you can't just STOP using heroin, but there are ways of being helped to stop with methodone etc, and obviously they aren't doing this either.
Myself I would not feel especially scared going out at night alone- I mean I know a martial art for self defence, and I am strong for a female- and the murders are a long long way from where I live in the North West- but MOSTLY because of the last point, and I have not heard of a serial killer near my area targetting young women.
Even so, the most fully prepared person can be supprised and done in.
It's hard to say really what my thoughts are. I feel sorry that the girls have had their lives ended so quickly, but to be honest they were killing themselves with such a lifestyle too. I know it's not fair, and their families will be devistated, but it's true that the life they chose alone was a huge risk.
Learned helplessness of these women would come from their past, their addictions, their attributions for their lifestyle, and the way they are treated being prostitutes.
It's hard to talk about what you're asking without mentioning their lifestyles.
I don't think it would make that much difference to be honest, if women were encouraged to be strong and taught self defence in the curriculum. I mean, even the strongest most confident men are murdered.

Murder is a very hard thing to wrap up in a paragraph or two. You have so many things to consider, I can't say such a blanket statement as 'if they'd grown up strong with self defence they wouldn't be murdered' because that has so little to do with these cases.
If this murderer is targetting prostitutes, do you think he or she would really care if they could, in theory, snap his/her neck easily or not? Serial killers tend to plan, study their victims, learn routines, stalk them. They would ideally only strike in the most appropriate time and place, when the victim was most vulnerable.
I wouldn't have thought strength and self defence would stop them realistically, since the case in hand seems to suggest these murders are planned, as they are all prostitutes from the same area. Being supprised by say, a knife to the back of the neck, you wouldn't have much time for self defence.

[cpbell0033944]

Thanks for your views, SyberStyz – I didn't realise you were also British – there seem to be more of us around than I thought.  I didn't try to give the impression that I believed that being strong would have helped these women, what I meant was that I wondered whether a society as I described would tend to have less violence towards women – whether even a pathological weirdo like the killer in this case would possibly be dissuaded.  I certainly didn't want to judge these women though – I think that we could possibly only understand if we ourselves had a drug addiction, or were reliant on a pimp to make ends meet etc.

[Lu]

What I was meaning by their circumstances is that faced with life without their drugs, or possible death, they would rather risk their lives- which seems to denote they don't want to stop using the drugs.
That, and from the reports I've seen, these girls have family and friends  that love them and care about them- whom I would have thought would help them at least with say, a place to stay while they get on their feet, if they had serious financial problems that were independant of drugs.

Again, violence towards women may be seen more, but there is an awful lot of violence towards men that is never seen- and men are encouraged through society to be strong etc. I still don't think violence to women would be reduced in such a society still, because there are people who are not deterred by that sort of thing. If what you're meaning is that society is the influence for the difference in women, I wouldn't think a killer would be concerned too much with society and everyone else.

I just don't think if roles were reversed, there would be much difference. Maybe it'd just mean the violence between sexes of men to women would become more hush-hush like we see with violence of women to men.

[cpbell0033944]

Thanks for your understanding, SyberStyx.  I didn't put what I meant very well last night – tiredness led to sloppiness of writing.  All I wondered was whether a society that treated women as PHYSICAL equals (thankfully, the old patriarchal views of women in most other areas of life are dead and buried) might have less of this sort of thing, but, as you pointed-out, one of the few hallmarks of these psychos seems to be that they are removed from society and its views, so it probably wouldn't happen.  It was interesting to read your views on violence against men, though, as many people seem to think that it hardly happens, which is, of course, well wide of the mark.  Men get raped and mugged surprisingly frequently given all the factors we usually associate with these sorts of crimes.
Do you think it's time to drop this thread, out of respect for the families of the dead women?  I don't think it's particularly pertinent for a community like Amaz0ons.  Perhaps it was unwise for me to start it.

[Author]

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