[Lingster]

High turnout is overrated – brings out too many people who don't have any grasp of the issues.

[Robert McNay]

High turnout is overrated – brings out too many people who don't have any grasp of the issues.

God forbid the less educated or informed have a say in their government…..  ::)

[Lingster]

God forbid the less educated or informed have a say in their government…..  ::)

I'm not saying they should be denied the vote, just that I prefer it when they don't bother to show up.

[cpbell0033944]

I'm not saying they should be denied the vote, just that I prefer it when they don't bother to show up.

How is hoping that the less educated don't vote better than improving their education?  That seems to me the difference between conservatism and progressivism, and it's why you and I can never agree on matters of politics.

[Lingster]

How is hoping that the less educated don't vote better than improving their education?  That seems to me the difference between conservatism and progressivism, and it's why you and I can never agree on matters of politics.

They can do whatever they like.  I'm not in the business of pressuring strangers into doing what I think is best – and that's one big difference between America's individualist conservatism and European 'progressivism'.

[cpbell0033944]

They can do whatever they like.  I'm not in the business of pressuring strangers into doing what I think is best – and that's one big difference between America's individualist conservatism and European 'progressivism'.

With respect, you're not seeing what I'm trying to say. There's nothing about European mainstream politics that tries to coerce people into doing something they don't want to do.  My argument was that you seem to think you're being magnamimous (sp?) by  saying that you won't do it either.  That is a given – if you or anyone else here were to put pressure on people, I'd call them fascist without hesitation.  The fact remains, though, that you stated that you'd prefer it if less well-educated people (i.e those at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum) din't vote.  This seems a typical US conservative approach – restrict (or at least hankering after the ability to restrict) the vote to those who you feel deserve it or are worthy of it.  This is fundamentally undemocratic to my eyes, because it is precisely the excuse that was given by the establishment at the time of women's suffrage.  My progressivist philiosophy is very different – I dvocate providing better education to all so that every legal voter is able to make an informed decision.

[The Highlander]

Excellent new, now America has a leader who hopefully will understands that just because someone disagrees with you and wants’ to do things his way instead of yours, they are not automatically evil.

[Lingster]

With respect, you're not seeing what I'm trying to say. There's nothing about European mainstream politics that tries to coerce people into doing something they don't want to do.  My argument was that you seem to think you're being magnamimous (sp?) by  saying that you won't do it either.  That is a given – if you or anyone else here were to put pressure on people, I'd call them fascist without hesitation.  The fact remains, though, that you stated that you'd prefer it if less well-educated people (i.e those at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum) din't vote.  This seems a typical US conservative approach – restrict (or at least hankering after the ability to restrict) the vote to those who you feel deserve it or are worthy of it.  This is fundamentally undemocratic to my eyes, because it is precisely the excuse that was given by the establishment at the time of women's suffrage.  My progressivist philiosophy is very different – I dvocate providing better education to all so that every legal voter is able to make an informed decision.

The GOP is responsible for universal suffrage in the US, decades before it was achieved in the UK.

[cpbell0033944]

The GOP is responsible for universal suffrage in the US, decades before it was achieved in the UK.

I'm not saying they didn't – I'm saying that the argument for restricting the vote to those you want to have the vote is a generally conservative trait, irrespective of national boundaries.  Anyway, you didn't have all states giving women the vote until after we gave women the vote – we were just regrettably tardy on reducing the age restriction.

[Lingster]

No one is making an argument to restrict the vote.

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