[demented20]

The biggest nit I have to pick is the types of characters some writers populate their stories with. I have to actually like or find something redeeming in a character to enjoy a story. So many female muscle stories contain nothing but a whole cast that should just be lined up in front of a wall and shot. The guy will be a total sleeze trying to take advantage of the woman in some way. The woman will be complete psychotic who loves to torture men or she'll literally get off on killing people. Or worse.

This is always a touchy topic for me. I never want to even to seem like I'm bashing somebody else's work, however… What you said is the very reason I started writing in this genre in the first place.  Either every character wasn't really a character but a caricature, or the plot was one like you mentioned.

I got to a point where I was going to pull my hair out if I read one more story about a picked on, skinny, ugly, nerdy, weak young woman who took a pill to get big and strong, then proceeded to pummel every living thing in sight.  Or destroy a city, or somebody's house, or rape some poor unsuspecting dope who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

For me, a story needs to be a "story", it has to make me want to read more or learn more about the character. I like a progression and purpose to it, if it's part of something larger (a series, world, an epic) all the better.

I also hate to shamelessly self promote, so I am only going to promote myself after feeling thoroghly ashamed about it. There are other authors who write terrific multi-part stories, but I have a serial story I've been writing for a while now called Power and Fury that might be up your alley. Lots of action, and I'm proud of characters that make up the world. St.Mercy has been kind enough to link all the chapters for easy access.
http://amaz0ns.com/option,com_smf/Itemid,135/topic,5686.0/

[Fonk]

Hmm you mean all this time there was a method!!!  I had to try to figure most of that stuff out by trial an error  😉

Agreed!

Does that mean I've been writing, somehow, incorrectly all this time?! 😮

[The Saint]

Well, it might be comforting to say "there's no wrong way to write a good story"… but then you look at 75% of the atrocities Jim Carrey's starred in, and well…

[Michael Pouliot]

Nice thread.  I'd like to touch on two points:

1) 'Story' vs. 'Extended Scene'
This is clearly a personal preference.  My preference is for structure, but that's because I have a specific goal.  My preferred stories include the growth of multiple characters through multiple stages.  This allows for both a diversity of experience and a story that allows characters to obtain an ever increasing amount of power, parceled out in pieces.  To do this coherently, you need a structure which allows for those multiple events to be bound.  An extended scene doesn't allow for that.

2) Endings
Endings are hard.  In all writing.  It's not specific to fetish writing.  Professional writers have an incentive to creating an ending, since they're getting paid for a finished product.  But it appears to me that most writers are much more comfortable writing the story then concluding it.  And this really shouldn't be surprising.  The joy of writing is in the creation of events.  Resolution means you're bringing your writing experience to an end, and who wants that?

I almost never critique fetish stories.  I don't understand the point of it.  I like stories that satisfy my particular wants.  So why should I be critical if someone generates a story that doesn't line up with my desires?  As for "good writing", how am I to critique that?  Should I use this forum as a platform for educating people how to "write better"?  I hardly think I'm qualified to attempt that.

I find writing to be very difficult.  My own attempt took me a number of years to complete.  I have other ideas partially plotted, but I have difficultly being creative enough to construct a plot that I find satisfactory.  Which is another reason why I'm extremely hesitant to criticize anyone else's writing.  I know how hard in can be, and in this little fetish corner of my Universe, I appreciate anyone who makes an attempt, and I simply privately filter out the stories that I personally find unappealing.

[randy guillotte]

I personally enjoy reading stories that are plotted and structured, with good plot and character development, over the "wham-bam, thank you ma'am" type. However, even those  stories can be entertaining if they're well written. I will also say that I have read very few stories concerning this genre i.e.: fmg, that I would harshly critique (were I prone to judging, something I've no business doing) other than in basic writing skills. Even then, I have read poorly written stories that were more enjoyable due to their subject matter, than ones which may have been grammatically perfect yet lacked any feeling or substance. By and large, I truly admire those folks who can take the time to even sit down and write about their personal fmg fantasies, dreams, nightmares, etc. in a way so that others may enjoy them as well.
Kudos to all you storytellers, artists, photographers and as well to the many fans of this particular 'obsession' out there. javascript:void(0);
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[The Saint]

I will also say that I have read very few stories concerning this genre i.e.: fmg, that I would harshly critique (were I prone to judging, something I've no business doing) other than in basic writing skills.

Let me get this out of the way — yes, you do have every right to critique — in fact, as a fellow writer, you have a duty to judge, and harshly (but still constructively, bear in mind.)

Writing is a science, bare minimum. Done well, writing is an art. If you have a technique that will enable your fellow craftsman to improve his product, how selfish is it to spare his feelings at the expense of his art?

[stmercy2020]

Let me get this out of the way — yes, you do have every right to critique — in fact, as a fellow writer, you have a duty to judge, and harshly (but still constructively, bear in mind.)

I have to disagree with you, I'm afraid.  Unless an author has <i>asked</i> you to critique them, you really <i>don't</i> have the right to say anything.  I would also argue that merely placing something on a forum is not the same as asking for criticism- if the request isn't explicit, then the request doesn't exist.

That said, you <i>do</i> have the right to make judgements- indeed, you can hardly stop yourself from doing so- just not the right to inflict them on anyone else.

Writing is a science, bare minimum. Done well, writing is an art. If you have a technique that will enable your fellow craftsman to improve his product, how selfish is it to spare his feelings at the expense of his art?

An interesting point.  Let me throw this question back at you; how <i>foolish</i> is it to critique someone- even constructively, as you say- if your criticism is so harsh that it stifles productivity?  While I would agree that some, even most, authors on the internet share an appalling disregard for grammar, punctuation and spelling, sometimes it isn't their fault (such as when they've chosen to share something in English when it isn't their native language) and attacking their mechanical skills is not only cruel, but counterproductive.

Several of your assertions in this thread have left me feeling moderately offended, I'm afraid.  Basically, your tendency to state things as black-and-white, as inarguable truths which people must accept or be labelled wrong (spelling, writing-as-science, characters vs. caricatures) irritates me not because you don't raise valid points, but because you present them as absolutes.  Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, but try to acknowledge that it is just that- your opinion- and that everyone else is also entitled to their own views as well.

[The Saint]

I have to disagree with you, I'm afraid.  Unless an author has <i>asked</i> you to critique them, you really <i>don't</i> have the right to say anything.  I would also argue that merely placing something on a forum is not the same as asking for criticism- if the request isn't explicit, then the request doesn't exist.

Ah, but readers will judge. Not only will readers judge, they will critique, and rarely will it be constructive. In other words, if Joe Writer puts forth a story that sucks, he's generally going to be told that it sucks. Telling him why it sucks, so that his next one won't, is a kindness to him. And a writer invites that criticism with every submission.

That said, you <i>do</i> have the right to make judgements- indeed, you can hardly stop yourself from doing so- just not the right to inflict them on anyone else.

Well, that's where criticism is a two-way street. After all, everybody and his dog can tell the Emperor he's nekkid, but if they Emperor don't wanna hear it… *laughs*

An interesting point.  Let me throw this question back at you; how <i>foolish</i> is it to critique someone- even constructively, as you say- if your criticism is so harsh that it stifles productivity?

Good criticism doesn't. And yes, criticism can also be evaluated critically. "Yer story sux0rz!" shouldn't hold an ounce of weight in a writer's evaluation of his work. Might influence his evaluations of the media he's submitting to, but as criticism that kind of vague, mean-spirited junk ranks somewhere below the opinions of New York roaches.

While I would agree that some, even most, authors on the internet share an appalling disregard for grammar, punctuation and spelling, sometimes it isn't their fault (such as when they've chosen to share something in English when it isn't their native language) and attacking their mechanical skills is not only cruel, but counterproductive.

A honed ear can usually detect second-language English in writing.

Several of your assertions in this thread have left me feeling moderately offended, I'm afraid.  Basically, your tendency to state things as black-and-white, as inarguable truths which people must accept or be labelled wrong (spelling, writing-as-science, characters vs. caricatures) irritates me not because you don't raise valid points, but because you present them as absolutes.

Absolutely. I'll level with you here — absolutely nothing is absolute. (See? I do have a sense of humor!) Just as no one can reach perfection (the all-encompassing absolute) that doesn't mean we should all give up trying.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, but try to acknowledge that it is just that- your opinion- and that everyone else is also entitled to their own views as well.

I've never said — and would never dream of saying — otherwise.

[stmercy2020]

Ah, but readers will judge. Not only will readers judge, they will critique, and rarely will it be constructive. In other words, if Joe Writer puts forth a story that sucks, he's generally going to be told that it sucks. Telling him why it sucks, so that his next one won't, is a kindness to him. And a writer invites that criticism with every submission.

We agree that readers will judge and even that some will go to the trouble of saying hurtful or cruel things.  That's really not the issue- if a writer is so insecure that he can't handle that, it's a shame, but not one I'm likely to lose sleep over.  I think where we fundamentally disagree is in the right of a competent, skilled writer to express not only the opinion that something "sucks," but also the reason "why it sucks."  The implication is that you know what the author was attempting and how to achieve it better than he does.  While you may, in fact, have correctly discerned what the author was trying to do, it's also possible that you haven't or that you're way off base in your attempted remedy.  Once again, I think it comes down to a matter of approach.

Also, people publish things on the internet for a variety of reasons.  I suspect the most common reason is self-gratification.  If that is the case, then telling such a person that their story is terrible, even if you then go on to tell them how to, in your opinion, fix it, is not something that will be well received.  In fact, it is more probable that you will accomplish nothing productive and may start what amounts to a flame war.

I think what it comes down to is this: I feel that if you are going to give your opinion about someone else's work, you should (1) be certain that your opinion is desired and (2) state explicitly that it is your opinion.

[The Saint]

We agree that readers will judge and even that some will go to the trouble of saying hurtful or cruel things.  That's really not the issue- if a writer is so insecure that he can't handle that, it's a shame, but not one I'm likely to lose sleep over.  I think where we fundamentally disagree is in the right of a competent, skilled writer to express not only the opinion that something "sucks," but also the reason "why it sucks."  The implication is that you know what the author was attempting and how to achieve it better than he does.  While you may, in fact, have correctly discerned what the author was trying to do, it's also possible that you haven't or that you're way off base in your attempted remedy.  Once again, I think it comes down to a matter of approach.

Also, people publish things on the internet for a variety of reasons.  I suspect the most common reason is self-gratification.  If that is the case, then telling such a person that their story is terrible, even if you then go on to tell them how to, in your opinion, fix it, is not something that will be well received.  In fact, it is more probable that you will accomplish nothing productive and may start what amounts to a flame war.

I think what it comes down to is this: I feel that if you are going to give your opinion about someone else's work, you should (1) be certain that your opinion is desired and (2) state explicitly that it is your opinion.

What it really boils down to, in my eyes, is this: we both agree that when you put your work out there for an audience, you have to expect your audience to respond to it, both negatively and positively. Fellow writers, in that context, are simply (hopefully) more educated readers, and even their reactions (both positive and negative) should reflect that.

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