[Lingster]

I don’t think it was the novelty. A substantial sub-set of men are attracted to strong women, but androgen use scares them off.

[ant1937]

Respect the opinion, Lingster, but disagree. I think men like fitness and maybe even light muscle, but not much. Let me ask you this. How much difference is there between fitness women of today and fbbs of the the 80’s. I would argue not much. I might even say the fitness girls of today are bigger. Do fitness contests get on TV now? Nope. Do even lightly muscled women get parts on TV or on TV shows? Nope. Not in the US. Just freak parts or cameos.. if anything.

The peak of fbbing on TV in the US was not the 80’s btw. It was the 90’s…more iin the first 5 or 6 years and now all women of muscle are pretty much unmarketable. There are some women just as attractive as Cory now. Check Megan Avalon for instance. No hollywood.

Again…it might be other different in other spots. I think the more manly the woman is…the more they are turned off. Not necessarily the size. Doughdee Marie was not even really an FBB and had a nice following. Bev francis and the less appealing ones….not much interest. Nicole Bass and Christi Wolf had the mostprominent roles recently…wrestling….which had a big steroid issue that got to the goverment and they lost the big girls in favor of skinny girls.

[ant1937]

38 million in Canada. Sorry people.

[cpbell0033944]

You might very well be right, Ant. I was speaking from a viewpoint on this side of the Atlantic. Thinking about it, I don’t know if female muscularity is any more accepted and marketable here than in the US. I’ve seen some very nasty and possibly slanderous comments from both Ameriocans and my fellow Brits about muscular women, though I think British men are more tolerant possibly…most of the nasty British comments I’ve seen have been from British women. Maybe British women are cattier and less supportive of ech other than American women. :unsure:

[ant1937]

Interesting discussion. I’m not saying men do not like fit women. They do like breasts in most cases. That is one thing that was always negative on fbbs here..the lack of breast size….thus the breast implants we now see all over the US and worldwide. That was part of the negative male reaction along with what Lingster said about the male hormone look. Mix those 2 together and you saw the sport disappear.

I’m pretty strong in my opinion. One thing Lingster did not address….is what happened to male bodybuilding? That was popular and died as well. We all knew Loe and Arnie were roids, but people loved the freaky look. Nowadays….not one famous muscle guy in the US. Think about that. There used to be 5 to 10. There are now none. There are no male bodybuilding shows on TV. It was a novelty and people associated it with roids. Mix in the fact that dieting down is bad for you and the fact that it really is not a sport of any kind and you have the collapse.

Has strongman or woman gone down? I would say no. About the same. That is a competition. Are they on roids…of course.

The fact is the gear is harder to get in the US and it comes with the risk of being jailed…is also an issue…even for women who are fine with it being underground. I imagine that is why Toronto is so popular for fbbs. What is closest to the US and has the best climate with easier access to drugs? Toronto. You can be a US citizen and go back and forth at will.

There are alot of reasons for it. I do not think that if your brought back Cory Everson and sold the Ms Olympia as it was….it would work now. Even if a decent subset of the men do like it..they can access it now on the net or just watching other female sports. They won’t watch it on TV. Trust me….the spot is never coming back and neither is fitness. The Hollywood roles….that might come back.

[AlexG]

Has strongman or woman gone down? I would say no. About the same. That is a competition. Are they on roids…of course.

I’d agree, but w/ this corollary, you don’t see the womens strongest contests televised anymore – the men, yes, often, but I haven’t seen a women’s competition on ESPN etal channels in several yrs now.

The Hollywood roles….that might come back.

Maybe, depends on the story line, and if the director is favorable towards the concept of a buffed woman as a true and correct expression of how the character is to be portrayed.

“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)

[cpbell0033944]

[quote=”ant1937″ post=101830]Has strongman or woman gone down? I would say no. About the same. That is a competition. Are they on roids…of course.

I’d agree, but w/ this corollary, you don’t see the womens strongest contests televised anymore – the men, yes, often, but I haven’t seen a women’s competition on ESPN etal channels in several yrs now.

[/quote]

We haven’t had Britain’s Strongest or World’s Strongest Man on terrestrial TV for years either, let alone WSW.

[ant1937]

We have not had the WSW in several years. We still have the WSM on all the time…when they hve nothing better to put on….which is often. It also has a limited TV upside. Lets face it. Same with weightlifting and powerlifting. You see it on some world sports highlight shows, but that is it.

[darkclaw91]

This…is actually kind of a saddening debate. I mean, I don’t think bodybuilding (male or female) will ever really “die”. I mean, if someone wants to do it, who’s going to stop them? However, I think it is kind of sad how much society does not value fitness…before, like others have said, there was a lot of bodybuilding (male and female) competitions. Now, it feels like a niche. Still, it’s a niche I enjoy and I’m sure many others do too.

(Warning: Rant below, but read the whole thing and I swear it makes sense in relation to the current argument. If you want to just see the conclusion and main points, skip to the last paragraph. And please note, this is all my opinion. So don’t freak out at me for it, please.)

I remember I posted a really cynical topic a while back about this (which I feel bad about, since it was kind of on a bad day for me…hence my uncharacteristic cynicism). However, after reading this topic, I have a new-ish opinion on the matter: North America has screwed up definitions of “masculine” and “feminine”.

I mean, as an egalitarian, I try not to care about what is masculine or feminine…but I’d be lying if I say I “never” do. I like women, who look like what Hollywood says is “beautiful” for a woman. However, as a person who loves fighting and bodybuilding, I like women who can kick a** and have muscle on them. But others I know tell me “Eww…you like women with muscles, they have man arms and man legs, etc.” (This is despite that the men who tell me this have stick-figure arms, nine times out of ten…and women agree with the “man arms/legs/etc.”). Because of the constant teasing I get about liking fbb’s and “the Hollywood ideal”…I feel incredibly awkward about my “interests”. It usually boils down to those mocking me that women should not be strong (or god forbid, muscular)…and I get this from men and women.

So, I guess what I’m saying is, if I can feel so…awkward…due to this, I can see why many other men and women would feel awkward. Some men may not want a woman to be stronger than them (even, or especially if the woman is a bodybuilder/power-lifter/etc. and they never worked out) and some women may worry they will not be attractive to men if they are physically strong and/or muscular.

As for drugs/steroids, they do make women look more “masculine”/have deeper voices/etc. So, yeah, a lot of guys won’t like that. But should people bash the guys who do? Apparently, yes, because you don’t see roided women all the time in the media. In my personal experience, I like women who are buff and tough. But…steroid-using women? It’s awkward for me, because every other guy I know except my trainer disses them. Seriously. I know that most women who work out can’t expect to have 17” inch arms naturally, so I feel conflicted on that point. Plus, I personally would never use drugs myself because I worry about them affecting my fighting performance and overall health…so I would worry about a woman’s health who is using roids too. It’s…REALLY complicated. There is never an easy answer to “Should bodybuilders (male or female) use steroids?” (IMO)

Also… people have different fetishes, interests, etc. So, it all comes to personal preferences…and definitely the preferences of those in charge in media, to say what it is “accepted” and what is not “normal”.

On another related topic; I, personally, think that Hollywood and the media should slowly introduce a variety of body types into media. If it was done all at once, some people may find it…odd, I guess, so that’s why I said “slowly”. But, honestly, I think it is not healthy to have only thin women and somewhat buff or athletic men in media. Why? In high school or college, I have seen people drive themselves insane over trying to be what the media shows. Women diet down to stick figures, while a lot of men complain about not having muscles yet do nothing to gain them or eat a bit more and then are made fun of for having a potbelly…the list goes on. If you do not fit the “mold” the media has, you’re made fun of. End of story. And it’s a sad story because of that.

If people were allowed to see people as varied as them in the media, maybe they would allow themselves to be more varied without judging themselves so badly. Maybe they’d be more open to other bodytypes. I don’t know. But the media should at least try.

As for the media’s definition of “masculine” and “feminine”…I would want them to just abolish those words. It would be a better world (IMO) if we didn’t worry about conforming to gender roles. But we do. For example, when I was younger, I wanted to be like Batman in Batman: The Animated Series. I wanted to kick butt and be buff. Then I watched Justice League. And Wonder Woman was hot to me…but why could she lift more than Bats but had no muscle to speak of (okay, other than that she’s an immortal warrior princess of Amazons infused with godlike powers…but you get my point)? I was…confused. I still am somewhat. But the point is, I wanted to be a “manly man” like Batman. On the other hand, I know women who actually think that magically going to the gym and only doing cardio is going to give them the stick figure of Wonder Woman and they’ll also magically get lots of strength. Uh, no? If you want strength, lift weights, I told a female friend of mine once when we went to the gym (she wanted to lose some weight…even though she was thin…really thin). I even told her she would not bulk up instantly so if she wanted a certain level of musculature, she could control it. She still thought that if she had even a POUND of muscle it was too much, but wanted to be strong. Contradiction, much?

Also, the media REALLY needs to start telling people to be more active. I know FAR too many people who complain about not being fit, strong, fast, whatever…but don’t do anything about it. At all.

(Last paragraph/list below…though if you read my whole rant, you get a cookie…or something, I think that meme is really old…so you get an Oreo, okay? …Which is still a cookie, so yeah.)

So, in conclusion, I personally think we would all be better off if:

A- The media actually had a variety of body types that made sense. If a superhero is lifting 100 tons…they should look it, regardless of gender.
B- The media got rid of gender roles.
C- The media promoted health and fitness…without being anvilicious (as in, they should not be forcing it onto everything and everyone). They can still have all kinds of bodies, and they don’t all need to be skinny or buff or anything. But some (men and women) could be buff, and if they are supposed to be strong, they should be buff then or have some muscles or something.

End rant.

[cpbell0033944]

Stone me, darkclaw is as long-winded as me!
Must say, I agree almost entirely, except to say that I cannot see the prospect of gender stereotypes disappearing in our lifetimes, unfortunately.

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