[greyfox]

Well I agree that it is indeed time to turn the heat down on this topic, as someone said above. It's ok that we can disagree on this issue. You know where I stand and why, and I know where those of you have posted stand- and thats fine.

*Just a couple of quick items.
on the "reputation" claims. I think it would be incredibly stupid for any BB'er to admit to taking steroids for obvious image and endorsement reasons. That being said, I dont know why JD would claim to be natural if shes not; i could offer theries but it would be pure speculation and I am not going to beat a now dead horse.

And to cbpell, I admit that I am not a qualified biologist by any means but if you are, even you must admit that test. production is the single greatest factor for muscle growth. My evidence on female test. was based on legitimate medical journals found threw a scholarly archive engine.

Also, there was someone who said that they fail to see how male bb's are an authority. I personally think they credible, but I did insist in early posts that acctual medical science evidence certaintly trump theirs.

And finally there was a comment about competeing in drug "tested" events. IFBB and NPC testing is frankly a joke, it is raveged with inconsistencies and hypocricy. There are hundreds of articles on this topic on the web.

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets get back to discussing JD's lucious biceps and not if they are natural.

[cpbell0033944]

Well I agree that it is indeed time to turn the heat down on this topic, as someone said above. It's ok that we can disagree on this issue. You know where I stand and why, and I know where those of you have posted stand- and thats fine.

*Just a couple of quick items.
on the "reputation" claims. I think it would be incredibly stupid for any BB'er to admit to taking steroids for obvious image and endorsement reasons. That being said, I dont know why JD would claim to be natural if shes not; i could offer theries but it would be pure speculation and I am not going to beat a now dead horse.

And to cbpell, I admit that I am not a qualified biologist by any means but if you are, even you must admit that test. production is the single greatest factor for muscle growth. My evidence on female test. was based on legitimate medical journals found threw a scholarly archive engine.

Also, there was someone who said that they fail to see how male bb's are an authority. I personally think they credible, but I did insist in early posts that acctual medical science evidence certaintly trump theirs.

And finally there was a comment about competeing in drug "tested" events. IFBB and NPC testing is frankly a joke, it is raveged with inconsistencies and hypocricy. There are hundreds of articles on this topic on the web.

Ladies and Gentlemen, lets get back to discussing JD's lucious biceps and not if they are natural.

I never said that testosterone levels were unimportant, just that they weren't the only factor.  I would agree that it's very rare for a woman to build big muscles without some help; my argument was with your assertion thatthis somehow proved Johanna to be a liar.  I would also agree with you about the drug-testing at some events; however, with the number of tested events she's done, she would have been very lucky to get through clean each time had she been juicing.

[fasola]

to clarify something. If one looks at the contest that Jd was participated that are Drug tested, most of them aren't IFBB or NPC sanctioned they are from other more serious federations.

This aside, Let's just get back to our usual discusions.

[00tree]

YEAH the JD is SO HOT discusions. LOL  ;D

[jdfan]

A pic from the prejudging this morning at the Canadian Championships in Montreal:

From this pic I think J should take the middleweight class easily and be in with a good shot at the overall and Pro card. The finals are happening right now so stay tuned…

[jdfan]

Yes!! Just heard Johanna won the middleweight class and was awarded the 2nd Pro card (same as Cindy last year). Well done Jo!!

[jdfan]

[cpbell0033944]

So Johanna's a Pro at long, long last?

Athena also a Pro?  Good job, too. 8) 😉

[greyfox]

I never said that testosterone levels were unimportant, just that they weren't the only factor.  I would agree that it's very rare for a woman to build big muscles without some help; my argument was with your assertion thatthis somehow proved Johanna to be a liar.  I would also agree with you about the drug-testing at some events; however, with the number of tested events she's done, she would have been very lucky to get through clean each time had she been juicing.

I agree with everything you said (espcially the bolded statment) except for the last sentence.

Also, CBBF and Ontario National events, while they do have a better rep than the IFBB and NPC, are still mired with similar problems.

Ok, I'am done on this topic. It's obvious we can't disprove eachother anyway.

BTW, finally a pro card? Congradulations. Long time comming

[jdfan]

It always suprises me how people like greyfox here have no problem with women permanently damaging their health and appearance thru steroid abuse. But should a woman succeed the old fashioned way – naturally, thru hard work and perseverance over a 13 year competitive career – they get called a cheat and a liar and have their achievements rubbished.

I agree it's kinda pointless debating it further though. The only thing we can conclusively prove is that Greyfox is a libelous bigot.

Anyway – congratulations to Johanna on her Pro card and the vindication of her decision to stay natural.

[Author]

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