[cpbell0033944]

I would say that given the choice I would undoubtedly prefer to gaze upon real feamle bodybuilders then steroid filled monstrosities, it is one of the reasons I feel comfortable being here, because there are people here who have varied tastes and can comment well without always sounding down or angry. But lets put this into a little perspective, women by definition have breasts..have utereus, and other things that 'sexually' define them as female..we know however that a long time ago when women worked in the fields, raised families, helped there men do what needed to be done they weren't wimps…not by a long shot..pare away the fat they built up birthing children and you will find a hard body, sure they are not gigantic, that is what fantasy is for…but they were muscular..look at some of the renissance paitings you will see 'full figured' ladies but notice they have some muscle…not hard ripped like a FBB but they had some muscle. Anyway in closing don't let society bully you into believing women are not sexy muscled…afterall the only thing that seperates the sexes is there sexual characterisitcs and a few hormone and plumbing differences..the human body is meant to be used..some build muscle others are lucky enough to be…fit naturally and others change there form in ways science has yet to fully grasp (usually not in a good way..) so take it from me being an admirer of female muscle myself and some of the finer nuiances of the fetish, I can say I am comfortable with me and in the end that is really what matters. Love and Peace Sammi

Thanks Sammi – nice to get a female perspective on things.

[Tigersan]

Well I personally think that you just need to be honest with yourself.
I mean you know the best if you like it or not. I know that i LOVE
muscular women, its a part of me and it will always be, I'm not hiding
that fact, my dad knows, my mom knows, my brother knows, my GIRLFRIEND
knows (now my ex girlfriend, we broke up because 6000 miles apart doesnt
do good for relationships)she totally accepted me as I am, because i stated
that this is a part of ME. So either somebody accepts me as I am with
everything or doesnt accept me atall. I dont care what ppl say, I just say
"You know, thats what I like. I was born that way, AND I wouldn't change it
even if i could!" I treat it as a nice bonus, normal girls are like girls
for normal guy (they turn me on as much as they do turn on any other guy)
BUT i have a nice bonus that makes me 10x more happy. So I'm grateful for that.

My point. Be honest with yourself, if you love it dont let it go. Because you'll
get rid of your happines. I made it a point in my life to do what i love and earn
money on it. And i go for bodybuilding contests shooting videos for awefilms,
getting paid. Soon I'll start a membership version of fem-power. I mean im doing
everything to use my passion, and to live it. Simply because it makes me happy.
It was always my dream to make a living out of something that li like, but i never
thought i could do that from creating muscular women 3d models, or shooting videos
with fbb's. BELIEVING IS DOING.  Whatever you decide you are always a part of
our community and you are always welcome
Peace

[cpbell0033944]

Well I personally think that you just need to be honest with yourself.
I mean you know the best if you like it or not. I know that i LOVE
muscular women, its a part of me and it will always be, I'm not hiding
that fact, my dad knows, my mom knows, my brother knows, my GIRLFRIEND
knows (now my ex girlfriend, we broke up because 6000 miles apart doesnt
do good for relationships)she totally accepted me as I am, because i stated
that this is a part of ME. So either somebody accepts me as I am with
everything or doesnt accept me atall. I dont care what ppl say, I just say
"You know, thats what I like. I was born that way, AND I wouldn't change it
even if i could!" I treat it as a nice bonus, normal girls are like girls
for normal guy (they turn me on as much as they do turn on any other guy)
BUT i have a nice bonus that makes me 10x more happy. So I'm grateful for that.

My point. Be honest with yourself, if you love it dont let it go. Because you'll
get rid of your happines. I made it a point in my life to do what i love and earn
money on it. And i go for bodybuilding contests shooting videos for awefilms,
getting paid. Soon I'll start a membership version of fem-power. I mean im doing
everything to use my passion, and to live it. Simply because it makes me happy.
It was always my dream to make a living out of something that li like, but i never
thought i could do that from creating muscular women 3d models, or shooting videos
with fbb's. BELIEVING IS DOING. 😉 Whatever you decide you are always a part of
our community and you are always welcome 😉
Peace

I'm starting to sound like a stuck record, but thanks Tigersan!  It was interesting to read some more about you as well.  You sound like you really love what you do, which is one of the things that I think people should always try to do.

[Holiday]

Hey, cpbell0033944. In view of the Muscle Worship, don't let that influence you. From the reviews I've read of the show it wasn't very broad minded.

[cpbell0033944]

Hi all,
I'm now one post short of a big milestone (or should that be millstone? ;D), i.e. 500 posts.  Having given the subject a lot of thought, I've decided that, to help me to continue to enjoy female muscularity, I'm going to remove from my goddess' list (it only now exists in my Favourite sites system on AOL, which is a bit like a bookmark list), but not from the list of those I greatly admire, a couple of the bigger ladies who do not compete in natural competitions. :'(  It's been far from an easy decision, and I do so with a heavy heart, as I have I think already mentioned that there are times when the really huge muscles turn me on, but it isn't worth it for the dilemma that this poses for the rest of the time. 

I do hope that you folks won't be too upset, and will understand that, by slightly lowering my upper muscle limit for a competitor in "unlimited" competition below that which I sometimes find sexy, I'm putting in place a kind of 'buffer-zone' to prevent heartache such as I expressed earlier in this thread.  This DOES NOT mean that I am accusing them of anything, just that I always felt that they caused the doubting gremlin on my shoulder to question me.  I've cast that gremlin off now. 

The ladies in question, are, regrettably Gina D and Nikki F. :'(  If I could be certain that they were 100% natural, I'd reinstate them, but I find it difficult, when dealing with ladies who I am cannot be certain don't juice, to justify where my 'line in the sand' should be.  I need a line in the sand, because I need to put those who, in my opinion are victims of a "bigger is automatically better" philosophy (re the lady mentioned negatively in the Dr Ablow thread) over that line, for the sake of my sanity and my personal views.  I've come to view BB (both male and female) as tending to overemphasise bulk and underemphasis the importance of shape, symmetry, flow and line.  For example, I have looked for purposes of reference at photos of the likes of Ronnie Coleman, and have found that I find him as bizarre-looking as many of the biggest women (obviously, as I am straight, the attractiveness side of things doesn't apply with the guys; I refer to Coleman and his ilk in the way that an enthusiast of sculpture or paintings might – I am certainly not in any way bisexual).

Perhaps this makes me a hypocrite, and if anyone is offended then I apologise, as I cannot say with 100% certainty that the likes of Ericca Kern (who remains on my Goddess' list) didn't at some time use steroids.  My explanation is that their level of muscularity was slightly less, therefore they do not cause confusion as to where my 'line in the sand' should be.  In other words, they had more of the elegance of shape and line that I now know I find perennially attractive than some of those at the very upper end of the range that I find desireable, therefore I don't find that they trigger the confusion and doubts that prompted me to start this thread in the first place. 

I haven't really been able to express in this post properly how I feel, but I hope that everybody will understand and accept my reasons for doing this.  It IN NO WAY means that the drooling posts in respect of Nikki and Gina were anything other than 100% honest and genuine.  All it means is that my feelings have changed as I've learned more; some of the wide-eyed awe has passed, I have become more cynical about the business of FBB, and this means that I now really dislike the concept of any BB, male or female using GH or steroids – I wish that the ladies never felt the need to take these things.  For a start, having fewer competitors with rough skin, square jaws, deep voices etc. would, I am convinced, help public acceptance of both FBB as a sport, and female muscularity as a concept, which I'm sure we would all agree would be very positive.

Thanks,
Chris Bell, otherwise known as cpbell0033944.

[AlexG]

Since your dropping two, maybe you'll want to add Skye Ryland to your list . . .  😉

“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)

[cpbell0033944]

Since your dropping two, maybe you'll want to add Skye Ryland to your list . . .  😉

Thanks Alex.  I had hoped to make my landmark 500th post a little more significant, but I did see your post on her, and was very impressed.  I think I will put her in the list, come to mention it. ;D 8)
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say with respect to Nikki and Gina – I still deeply admire them, but I feel tainted – my innocence that let me look at hypermuscular women like them who, I hasten to add look to me very feminine has gone.  Too many women whose faces are changed by steroids, too many doubts about whether I am as much a supporter of femuscle as I thought because I found androgenic faces too offputting, too much uncertainty as to what FBB should be about, and too many suggestions that FBBs that I admired and drooled-over had achieved what they had by using drugs. 

The last straw was reading, earlier today, a discussion on T-nation about women and steroids containing a post from Nikki's husband explaining that they decided to start her on low-level Winstrol a while back to build more muscle (did she need any more?), and that, although they cut-back when her voice became affected, thus nipping it in the bud quickly enough for them to reverse the voice problems, that it had stopped her period (not a problem because she was too old to have kids etc.) and that they were happy with it.  He was promoting Winstrol as a good steroid for women in moderation, whilst the other contributors disagreed, saying that it was androgenic and not suitable for anyone who wasn't happy with androgenous effects.  I stress that this was what he was saying – any suggestions that Nikki has ever used steroids are NOT mine  I can't imagine that this guy was a crank, as he seemed to be a well-established member of T-Nation, but it upset me – Nikki was, as you know, a favourite of mine, and the thought that she might be risking her beauty by taking steroids when she already had a body to die for was shattering.  If I'd have read this two or three weeks ago when  started this thread, it might well have been enough to make me leave and try to rid myself of my atraction to muscular women.  Sounds pathetic, I know, but I felt so low at the time. 🙁

Link:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1337495&pageNo=0

Contributor in question was prisoner#22

Hold on a sec; I've just looked at the photos in his profile, and his wife (or at least the woman in the pics) isn't Nikki, or at least, if she is, then there are two Nikki Fullers around. ???
Maybe he is a crank?

[Yaponvezos]

Well I can see your predicament and I thought I might as well chime in and see what happens.

First of all, I disagree with you in a number of points which I will explain further down this post.

Before I do though, you should really stop apologizing. There is no reason to feel guilty about your taste or the change of your taste. To each his own. No harm done. As with anything else, not everyone in a group thinks the same so there really is no reason to worry that much.

As for your views concerning female bodybuilders and the use of steroids as well as you worrying if you might come off as hypocrite. I can't say you 're a hypocrite but you have certainly been naive up until now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put you down, it's just my opinion.

The fact that you thought most of the women you admired had not used drugs to get where they are is, at best, inexplicable. Contest preparation is such that even figure competitors use gear for one purpose or another. So to thing most female bodybuilders don't just doesn't make any sense.

What I find troubling though is not your slight change of heart but its basis. You continually speak of drawing a line. That's fine as it goes with any kind of taste. But why is that line being dictated by the suspected use of drugs instead of what you really think of the outcome? The way you see it right now, it's like you sense of morality dictates your tastes. That really does not make sense to me. Taste is taste after all. Morality should come into play when taste leads to some kind of action. And in your case, I sense there is no action involved. I could be wrong of course.

As for the drugs themselves and their use. Drugs should not be demonized in any way. A substance can't be good or bad by default. It's all a matter of context and perspective. Everyone has a choice to do what they want with their body and as with any other choice, it may be opposed to but it should be respected.

I'm not saying you believe that but I need to say this:I am truly tired of hearing that steroids cause cancer or sclerosis or the China Syndrome and what have you. As with everything, moderation is key and one can have different thresholds as to what he/she considers acceptable losses, sacrifices etc. In the end, what should matter is health. And by health I mean true functional health and not aesthetic complications and/or deformation.

Since i get the sense I'm wandering here, I'll put a stop.

What you just need to remember, I think, is that you have the right to like and dislike whatever you want. No reason to feel guilty about it. Just make sure you do it for the right reasons and not because one rosy fantasy was smeared of shattered. After all is there anything that is rosy through and through?

[TC2]

I gotta agree with the above poster, it seems you are pretty naive if you think that most of those body builders haven't used a drug of some sort.  However, just because they may have used drugs doesn't necessarily make them bad people in anyway.  If things were so easily black and white it would be easy to say.  "Well she used drugs, she's no longer attractive."  Why the hell would what she used to build her physique matter to you anyway unless you were dating her?

It's kind of like falling in love with a woman online and then finding out she's a fat girl later on, so does her personality change just because she's overweight?  No, of course not, that doesn't change the person one bit.  I mean honestly, you're not dating any of these bodybuilders, why should what they used to get where they are influence whether you find them attractive or not?  That would only make sense if you were dating them as there would be valid reasons to be concernced.

However, considering that you're only viewing them from a distance, I really don't see why it should matter at all. 

[cpbell0033944]

Thanks to The_Collector_2 and Yaponvezos for your articulate and considered views.  I did say that I hadn't been able to express my feelings very well, and I think that explains some of what you covered in your responses.  I suppose I tend to have a guilty conscience in that I always thought less of someone who cheated in an examination etc. – the thought of doing the same was abhorrent to me.  I think this is at play here – I tend to be upset that someone who has built an incredible physique drug-free feels the need to then start juicing to get a final 5-10%; I dislike the fact that both male and female bodybuilders at the top level are required to juice in order to stand any chance of doing well.  In motorsport, cars are scrutineered before and after a race to ensure that they meet the technical regulations – if a team is caught cheating, they are punished.  This means that the less wealthy teams need not spend money on breaking the rules to stand a chance of being competitive.  However, in BB, it seems that breaking the laws of the land is indirectly encouraged and made necessary for competitiveness because everyone does it.  If BB wants to get a better public profile and be respected as a sport, then, in the US (where non-prescribed steroids are illegal), it must test competitors. 

Also, I am finding that my tastes and preferences are changing towards preferring what I've read one person decribe as a 'vertical physique' rather than an 'horizontal physique' for FBB (in fact for male BB as well).  It is called bodyBUILDING, not bodyMORPHING or bodyTRANSFORMING, after all.  It seems to be that the drugs help both genders to become extremely wide and blocky, which I do not find asthetically-pleasing in the men, and am no longer finding attractive and sexy in the women.  When you consider that many FBBs are fairly short (in the 5"2' to 5"6' range mostly, it seems, extreme width from behind (lat spread) looks to me out-of-proportion with height.  I still, obviously like a nice v-taper, but when the angle of that taper from behind gets towards 40-45 degrees from the vertical, to me it becomes too bulky and awkward-looking.  On a taller competitor, I think it looks better, because it's more in proportion with the rest of the body, but my understanding was that symmetry, balance (which I'm referring to here as 'proportion') and shape were as important judging criteria as size.

As to the idea that I thought that none of my fvourites had never juiced, that isn't what I meant.  I'm sure that some have, but, (this is where I admit to hypocrisy) if they don't look or sound as if they have, I'm not as worried.  How does that then explain why I am removing Gina and Nikki from my Goddess' list?  Well, after seeing a photo of Nikki doing a rear lat spread, I found myself thinking that she had crossed-over into 'horizontal physique', and that this photo seemed remarkably unsexy to me, whereas I had always previously found her to be very sexy indeed.  Couple that wih the T-nation stuff I linked to (which now confuses me as the lady in this guy's photostream who he claimsto be married to is NOT the Nikki Fuller I'm thinking of, and I started to wonder what the hell is happening. 

As far as Gina Davis is concerned, she started to worry me – I was very turned-on by the photos from her blog that I posted showing her arms even more massive than before, but I thought "If this guy is right about Nikki, then what the heck would he reckon somebody as big as Gina be doing?"  I repeat that I stiill find it hard to accept that either are doing anything different to anybody else – they both have great genetics and are obviously dedicated and brilliant about using diet and training to make the most of themselves.  I certainly don't think that anyone is a bad person if they do use steroids; I more bemoan the culture that pushes them into doing so, and wish that more felt able to resist the pressure.  I therefore wish (more than you'll ever know) that Nikki and Gina entered natural contests – I know even that's no guarantee that the competitors don't juice offseason (although I doubt if many, if any at all do), but at least it enables us to look at everybody at a contest and be confident that we're seeing 100% dedication, not 80% dedication and 20% pharmaceuticals.

The reason that Gina and Nikki might yet re-enter my list is that neither of them show the androgenous effects that I find such a turn-off.  The voice in particular, gets me every time with some FBBs – an attractive lady (who possinly doesn't look masculinised) with a great physique, then she opens her mouth and, oh no – she sounds like Brian Blessed (British actor – large, famous for having a deep, cheery, town-crier voice). Also, the facial changes (dodgy skin, huge jawline, out-of-balance nose, etc.) really turn me off.  That's why I'm in such a quandry, that's why I say that I don't really think they can be doing any more than anyone else – they still look and sound like women; yet I just can't help but wondering whether by drooling over them, I am stepping onto a slippery slope that ends with me fetishizing the enlarged private parts of a certain famous female wrestler.  How will I be able to sustain my judgement?

[Author]

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