[Lingster]

Mm.  Yeah, and when the Islamist crazies nuke Kansas City, and the country is paralyzed because half of those Hollywood retards are saying it was really Bush who did it, what do you suppose happens next?

The entertainment industry is a "nice-to-have", while national security is a "need-to-have".  Even Joe McCarthy understood that.

[cpbell0033944]

Mm.  Yeah, and when the Islamist crazies nuke Kansas City, and the country is paralyzed because half of those Hollywood retards are saying it was really Bush who did it, what do you suppose happens next?

Islamist crazies have had multiple attempts to wipe central London off the map (7/7 wasn't the only attempt – all the others were foiled).  We haven't got a Rosie O'Donnell, thank goodness (I never denied she's crazy and has probably committed the crime of sedition, BTW), so it isn't only 'O'Donnell countries' that are at risk.  I cannot understand, though, why the opinions of the Hollywood gossip shop are likely to influence Islamist attacks on the US. 

[egad]

The harm of these comments is that they support the extremist worldview.  I went to school with many middle eastern students who had ludicrous views of Jews and their actions; and they supported their assertions with small American liberals arts professors books on the subject.  Most of these are not credible scholars at tier 3 or lower colleges.  Because of their position as a professor, no matter how obscure they were taken as a credible source, by highly intelligent and educated middle easterner.  Imagine the effect on the less intelligent/educated Muslims.  Rosie as a host on the View, a quasi entertainment/news morning program is also in such a position. 

Now you are right that such comments are viewed as ridiculous by all but the most extreme western Europeans.  Unfortunately Europeans are not the problem; the problem is the Muslims who are being persuaded by extremists that 9/11, 7/7 etc. are a Jewish and American conspiracy to slander them and justify our "illegal" actions against terrorist groups such as al-Queda.

[cpbell0033944]

 

Now you are right that such comments are viewed as ridiculous by all but the most extreme western Europeans.  Unfortunately Europeans are not the problem; the problem is the Muslims who are being persuaded by extremists that 9/11, 7/7 etc. are a Jewish and American conspiracy to slander them and justify our "illegal" actions against terrorist groups such as al-Queda.

Good point.  Thanks.  I think this is what Lingster was trying to say, but I didn't see that because he condensed it to such a degree with his "Islamist crazies nuke Kamsas City" comment that it became, to my European eyes, somewhat obtuse (no disrespect, Lingster – I needed spoon-feeding.)  I still can't see how her actions were treasonous, though.  Seditious – probably; stupid – definetly, but treasonous?  No; my understanding of treason is that it has to be direct aid to one's enemies, not saying something daft that can be twisted by extremist clerics to brainwash gullible young Muslim lads who often lack direction or a clear sense of their identity.

[Lingster]

Look, there are a lot of Americans who don't like America.  Because the U.S. is so big, they tend to relocate internally instead of moving to another country.  I mean, if a Frenchman doesn't like France, he moves to Britain or Germany or Greece.  If a Hoosier is unhappy in Indiana, though, he's more likely to move to New York or California or Iowa.  In which case we're still stuck with the bastard.  (Also, we've got Canadians streaming across the border like rats off a sinking ship, all of whom have been raised from birth to believe they are morally and intellectually superior to the crass ignoramuses in the U.S.)

So there's a whole contingent of Americans who wish ill upon America.  Sometimes they are not-so-bright would-be intellectuals who have drunk deep of cranks and phonies like Chomsky and Edward Said.  Others are former government officials who suffer a deep-seated rage or sense of betrayal, such as Jimmy Carter or Ramsey Clark.  There are also many self-absorbed people who have persecution fantasies – perhaps their local radio stations don't play the music they want to hear, or somebody else got the promotion they wanted, so they see it as an indictment of the United States as a whole.  Finally, there are people who aren't very bright or well-educated, but want to seem as if they are, so they spit out contentious anti-American conspiracy theories to make themselves seem well-read.  Numerous celebrities including Rosie O'Donnell, Charlie Sheen, Sean Penn, and Susan Sarandon are in that category.  (Rosie also fits into the self-absorbed group with phantom grievances.)

I have no patience for these people.  They do what they do out of malice for the United States, which makes it traitorous.  And when, as Egad mentions, they actually abet Islamist crazies in one form or another, I think they should be made to pay for it.

[ScottG]

I think I have to agree with cpbell on this one.  When I think of treason I think of John Walker (The American Taliban) or Adam Gadahn (American Al-Qaida).  Those are people that either fired arms against our troops or appeared in propaganda videos FOR AL-QAIDA.
As much as I cannot stand Rosie O'Donnell(I would rather watch 24 hours of Jerry Springer), I do not believe she is guilty of treason, sedition yes, treason no.  She has appeared on TV and made some reckless accusations, but nevertheless they were not treasonous.

[Lingster]

Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 is distributed by Al-Qaeda for training purposes.  Al-Qaeda higher-ups have quoted from it generously in their audio and video tape releases.  You can believe that Loose Change 2 which is supported by Charlie Sheen (who is expected to narrate) and Rosie O'Donnell will be used as propaganda by the likes of Al-Qaeda, Hizbollah, etc.

[Yaponvezos]

Just a word of caution as I see it being written all the time. Please avoid such generalizations about Muslims. We 're talking about particular Muslims that happen to be extremists. There 's no need to put everyone in the same pot.

[ScottG]

The main difference is intent.  If you are able to prove that Michael Moore and Charlie Sheen had the intent that their movies/documentaries were to be used for Al-Qaida and the Taliban rather than just spitting out worthless conspiracy theories (as they are), then I would jump onto the "They are committing treason" bandwagon, but as it is, the burden of proof is on you to prove their intent.  Without intent there is no treason.

[Lingster]

Just a word of caution as I see it being written all the time. Please avoid such generalizations about Muslims. We 're talking about particular Muslims that happen to be extremists. There 's no need to put everyone in the same pot.

"Islamist" is a term used in the U.S. to denote am aggressive practice of Islam.  Other terms sometimes used are "Jihadist", "Jihadi" or "Radical Muslim".

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