[Anonymous]

Baby food? My step-brother told me about something called Muscle Milk, a protein shake mix that says it's based on the way that breast milk is composed.

MR. STONE: Phew, that's a lot of advice 🙂 Let me see if I can clear anything up for you.
First, it seems that you might have got the impression that I'm trying to put on muscle for the military. I'm not. I want to put on muscle before I go in, but that's only because I like lifting and know I won't be able to do it in the service for a while (according to my Army buddy anyway).

"I've run with some bodybuilder friends, they give up at the mile mark."
I upped my cardio, both in duration and how often I do it. This is because I want to condition my body into doing it. I want to have muscle, but I don't want my only strength to be, well, strength. I take yoga for joint strength and flexibility, and I do cardio for endurance. Just plain lifting doesn't appeal to me…that's not true strength in my opinion. Maybe this kind of wider variety will inhibit the amount of muscle I can put on…well, so be it.

"I kicked out several soldiers for not making weight, but they weren't "fat" per se.  They were lean bodybuilders.  I always get taped for being overweight."
So, they were kicked out for being overweight, but you are taped and not kicked out? I'm not sure I follow here.

"Here's a little secret, lean muscle mass promotes resting metabolic rate.  More muscle means more fat burning."
How long does that usually take before seeing results? As you saw, I am taking stimulants, and that's because I have 8 weeks to cut back on my body fat percentage. I -could- stop lifting weights and just go all cardio like I did to lose the weight, but I'd rather not unless I HAVE to. Also, I -could- just keep lifting and wait for the metabolism results, but then like I said I don't know how long it will take to see results.

"In the Army it's 2 minutes of push-ups, 2 minutes of sit-ups, and a 2 mile run.  The best way to improve these things?  Do them."
Hehe, yeah, I know. You'd better believe I IST a few times a week. For the Marines, it's situps, pull-ups (or arm hang if you're a girl, although I do try to improve pull-ups, too), and 1.5 mile run. I know it's different in boot, but right now all I have to go on is the IST.

"Let me know if you'd like some more information.  If I don't know it readily, I'll look it up for you."
I would. Let me say that I appreciate the offer, as well as the fact that you took the time to write all this down for me. I do appreciate it.
My question is percentages. I hear that you have to eat a certain percentage of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. I've heard 60% carbs vs. 20% protein with 10% fat per meal (by the way, I like the idea of getting half the protein than what bodybuilders suggest…it always seemed like too much for me; not the numbers but how my stomach felt after eating all that protein), but I've also heard the protein and carb percentages switced. In your opinion/reseach, what would be best? I'm trying to gain muscle, that's what I'm going for, but would like to lose fat at the same time. You say that I can't do both at the same time. Since weight is important for the military (I DON'T want to be the diet recruit all my life), should I just ditch the muscle gain until after boot? Focus on staying under weight? That brings on another question: I lost 37 pounds doing cardio 6 days a week and eating a low-cal, low-fat, no-processed-carbohydrates, low-sodium diet. The problem I have was that I checked my body fat and it's in the "unhealthy" range. A little lower on the unhealthy range, but still there. I'm about 6 percentage points higher than I thought. Now, this was on a diet where I lost weight rather quickly (lost it in a little over 3 months) doing nothing that I saw to be unhealthy or unnatural (I felt good, saw no negative side effects, didn't use any supplements or stimulants, etc.). So, if I lost the weight legitimately, why am I still high in body fat? I figured that since I was still exercising, my weight loss wasn't due to muscle loss but fat loss.
Maybe I sound like I'm worrying about this too much. Am I being silly?

[Mr. Stone]

Yes, I did get the impression you were trying to pack on muscle.  More so, I was trying keep people from trying to push that kind of advice on you.  It's not what you need.

Good job on giving yourself a wider variety.  You'll above and beyond so many people because of that.  The muscle will come, if you eat with that kind of thing in mind.  Ever notice the women who are in the aerobics room all the time?  What about the ones that spend 30 mintues to an hour on the thread mill or bike.  Ever notice any results from them?  Why is that?  Because they don't lift.  So keep up the lifting.  It's not a bad thing.  Heavy isn't bad either.  Another reason for their lack of results?  Diet.  It's the most important part of any workout plan.  I'll get back to that.

Okay, the fact that those soldiers were kicked out because of weight does sound confusing.  They were kicked out becuase they failed both weight AND tape.  I never fail tape, so I remain in.  Make sense now?  🙂

Ah, the eight weeks does put a damper on things.  I'm sorry I didn't go back and read everything.  I should have.  Yes, becuase of your eight week window, the stimulants may be necessary.  On average, if a person does what they are supposed to do in a healthy manner, 1 lb of loss a week is possible.  I see your problem, however.  When you get to where you need to be, throw that shit out.

Okay, now your questions.  You're wanting to lose weight.  That's the first issue to be addressed.  What you want is called a negative energy balance.  This means the number of calories used will be greater than the number of calories consumed.  Stored fat will be used for energy, and the body fat AND body weight should be reduced.  Remember when I said you can't build muscle and lose weight at the same time?  You can't consume the calories you need to build and lose weight at the same time.  Okay, so that's out of the way.

Next, what percentages of each?  The numbers you gave are about what the average healthy person should take in.  60/20/20.  You put 10% in the fat place, but I assumed it was a mistake.  All this low carb crap is making me insane.  The diet you describe sounds okay for simply losing the weight needed, but you shouldn't live like that.  Make sure it's a temporary thing.

The reason, based on what you're saying to me, that you're still in the higher percentage of bodyfat still is because, as you feared, you lost muscle weight.  It's sounds like you were exercising too much.  Cardio 6 days a week isn't necessary.  5 days is pushing the limit. 

A word on Cardio.  Cardio does burn a significant amount of calories, true.  It only burns it for approximately 3 hours after you've done it.  Then your body returns to it's normal metabolic rate for the rest of the day.  Lean muscle will raise that resting rate I was talking about. 

I also wonder how often you were eating.  Try to eat about 5 times a day.  3 meals, 2 snacks.  This will keep your metabolism more constant thoughout the day.

Alright let's highlight the important stuff:
1.  The stimulants are fine.  Get rid of them when you get to where you need to be.  They ARE counterproductive to gaining muscle, however, and I know you lose fat without them.
2.  To lose weight, you need to expend more energy than you take in as food.  The average intake of a healthy woman of 19-22 years of age is 2100 cal.  Make it 1500-1700 cal.  This is very general however.  We don't have the eqiupment to get real scientific here.
3.  DON'T stop lifting.  It should be a normal part of your workout.  2-3 times a week is plenty for what you want.  Don't be afraid to get heavy either.  High reps don't promote muscle hypertrophy.(building mass)
4.  Typically, 60/20/20 is what you need.  That's healthy levels.  Now, you have to take the 1500-1700 calories I gave you and split up the percentages.  How many calories of Carbs can you take in?  60% of a 1700 calorie diet?  1020 calories of carbohydrates.  Yes, that much.  340 calories of protien and fat.
5.  Cardio 3-5 times a week is plenty.  If you feel yourself getting more tired cut it back.  You're overtraining.
6.  Try to eat 5 times a day.  3 meals, 2 snacks.  Depending on the protien shake, they can count as meals if you're in a rush.  They make great snacks, though.  Don't worry about what kind it is.  You're not a bodybuilder so absorption rates aren't anything you need to worry about.

Not to offend anyone, but this is all basic biology.  There isn't any trade secrets here.  Maybe not stuff you learn in high school, but it's all tried and true information.  It will never change.

I hope I'm being helpful.  I know it's a lot.  Just ask if you need anything else.

[Anonymous]

More so, I was trying keep people from trying to push that kind of advice on you. It's not what you need.
I learned this yesterday. I was doing cardio (Monday being my cardio-only day), and was on the rowing machine. I busted my left finger a couple weeks ago, so I have only been able to build with my right side. For the left side, I used a couple resistance bands that I wrapped around my wrist and did a lot of reps with this relatively low weight. So, I was building on my right side, but doing “toning” work on my left. So I’m at the rowing machine and am going at it, and to my surprise, my right arm starts to ache. My left arm only started to ache towards the very end of the session, and even then it was bearable. The right side was just on fire.
This made me realize that right now, I should really focus on endurance more than gain.

Good job on giving yourself a wider variety.  You'll above and beyond so many people because of that.
That’s the point 😉 I started doing this whole thing because I wanted to be good both mentally AND physically. I figured out what was the most physically fit I could be (very strong but also very flexible and able to have high endurance, as well as joint/tendon strength), and am going for it. This isn’t to be muscular for muscles sake, this is because it’s part of what I see as the pinnacle of health.

The muscle will come, if you eat with that kind of thing in mind.
Oh, believe me, I do. 🙂 I have tried the protein amount you were talking about, and it’s helping a lot…it’s a lot more bearable and I don’t feel like I’m forcing myself to eat. I always get carbs and protein with every meal, even if that meal is just an in-between snack. I know that I need protein for the muscle and carbs to help process the protein.

They were kicked out becuase they failed both weight AND tape.  I never fail tape, so I remain in.  Make sense now?
Absolutely! That’s the boat I’m trying to skip out on. I made weight and started this muscle gain regimen. I knew I’d gain weight, but I said “That’s okay, I can make body fat, no big deal.” Then, to make sure, I checked my body fat and crapped my pants: I’m pretty high up there. This is another reason I switched to endurance training: I hear building your muscles that way increases the amount of fat you burn. Also, this way I won’t have to worry as much about how much food I cram down my gullet (mind you, I’m still very mindful and aware of what I eat, don’t skip meals, don’t starve myself, etc.), so I’ll be consuming less calories, which we all know equals more weight loss.

Yes, because of your eight week window, the stimulants may be necessary.  On average, if a person does what they are supposed to do in a healthy manner, 1 lb of loss a week is possible.  I see your problem, however.  When you get to where you need to be, throw that shit out.
Oh, absolutely. I am not a pro-supplement or pro-stimulant person. I believe that diet and exercise should get you where you need to be. I lost 37 pounds through diet and exercise, I know it works.
I picked up this stuff called Hydroxycut. My brother was using it and he said it worked (he lost a lot of weight, about 50 pounds), and it also worked for his friend. I figured I should give it a go because he and I have very similar genes (we ARE siblings) and so it’ll probably work the same way.

That's the first issue to be addressed.  What you want is called a negative energy balance.  This means the number of calories used will be greater than the number of calories consumed.
You may wish to come up with a better way to explain it. I mean, I know how to lose weight so I’m not confused, but a real diet n00b might take that to mean “I only lost 350 calories on the stairmaster today, that means I have to eat less than 350 calories today to lose weight!” Some people are that stupid.

The reason, based on what you're saying to me, that you're still in the higher percentage of bodyfat still is because, as you feared, you lost muscle weight.  It's sounds like you were exercising too much.  Cardio 6 days a week isn't necessary.  5 days is pushing the limit.
So what did I do to lose the muscle? Overworked, then because my body was needing nutrients it started hacking at the muscle? 

Lean muscle will raise that resting rate I was talking about.
So building muscles would help that then? You say “lean” muscle, which makes me wonder if there is a difference between building muscle and building lean muscle. 

I also wonder how often you were eating.  Try to eat about 5 times a day.  3 meals, 2 snacks.  This will keep your metabolism more constant thoughout the day.
Don’t worry, I have that covered. I eat 5-6 small meals a day.

Typically, 60/20/20 is what you need.
Yeah, I read 60% carb, 30% protein, 10% fat, but then my step-brother told me to switch carbs and protein. That didn’t sound right since you need carbs to help digest the protein.

Cardio 3-5 times a week is plenty.  If you feel yourself getting more tired cut it back.  You're overtraining.
And if I’m not getting tired?

I hope I'm being helpful.  I know it's a lot.  Just ask if you need anything else.
Yeah, it’s a lot. Maybe to help cut down your time spent on responding, it might help to know that I’m not a diet and exercise n00b. I’m just looking to see if anyone had any good tips for really rapid loss that wouldn’t sacrifice muscle gain because of my time constraint. If I had all the time in the world, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. So, hey, I appreciate it, don’t get me wrong…I mean, if I didn’t know it, then it would be helpful. But now that you know that I know about caloric expenditure vs. consumed calories and such, it would be faster and easier for you to tell me what you have found that works and can also work for women (we all hear about the guy that went on a cabbage diet and exercised for hours and hours on a weekend and then lost 10 pounds…it just don’t work like that for tha’ ladies, as you know). And if what I’m asking just isn’t a possibility, I realize that, and you can tell me so 🙂 I’m not ungrateful and asking you to get to the point or anything, I just don’t want you spending so much time writing all this out when you don’t need to.

Then again, others may be reading this, so if you want to keep writing it so that others may also learn, be my guest. Knowledge is power 😀

[dravenspirit]

It sounds like overall, MrStone is giving some good advice. I went back and read this whole thread and realized that I have been advising a bodybuilding regimen, which may not be conducive to your goals Strawberry. I apologize if I misled you, I was under the impression that (considering the thread name) this was the type of advice you were looking for.

For what its worth, I agree with most of MrStone's comments, especially that bodybuilding is an unhealthy lifestyle. Joint problems are not uncommon with bodybuilders, along with muscle tears, etc. Professional bodybuilders live an extremely unhealthy lifestyle, but thats a whole other extreme. And I would have to say that, yes, you can either build or lose weight, but not do both simultaneously. Keep in mind that bodybuilders cycle through an off-season shape (during which theyre bulky and less defined) and on-season (pre-contest dieting and higher definition). The whole veiny "ripped to shreds" look is very temporary.

The one thing that I dont agree with is having adequate protein to gain muscle mass in a standard diet, at least not the kind of mass I thought you were seeking. As many bodybuilders and personal trainers as I know, Ive never heard of a 'builder' consuming less than one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. While it is correct that the body can only absorb so much protein at one time, different proteins have different absorbtion rates, and meals are supposed to be evenly spaced out. Nor can every meal be your dinner. Once again, Im not sure what your goals are, but I can only offer my bodybuilding experience. In any event, good luck to you Strawberry.  😉

[Anonymous]

DRAVEN: Don't worry, a bodybuilding regimen IS what I was originally looking for. Since Mr. Stone dropped by, I happened to change it. It was a coincidence that he came by offering non-bodybuilding advice and that at the same time, I had checked my body fat percentage and decided to focus more on trimming up than bulking up.
My goal has changed, which means my lifting has changed. I now am doing lower weight to do higher reps. I realized that this was the right idea when my right side fatigued much faster than my left side (left finger is busted, so I was on a low-weight high-rep regimen for that side to prevent atrophy, but kept lifting with the right side). After boot camp I'll have much more time to build because I'll have no deadline to meet (I have a boot camp deadline, so I was worried and trying to pack on as much as I could), so all will be well.

I agree with you about the 1g of protein per pound of body weight. I had not heard that, either, but I think what Mr. Stone was saying was that I should consume 1g per pound of LEAN body weight. If he didn't say it, someone else somewhere else did, and it sounded like it made some sense to do it that way.

I have since picked up a protein supplement called Muscle Milk, which tastes great and…you know, maybe I'll make a new thread so I can tell everyone.

Oh, as for the bodybuilding diet, I already knew that but thank you for reminding me. It's good to be reminded of that to put things in perspective. :nods:

[Mr. Stone]

Yes, LEAN muscle weight.  Once you have your percentages, you can figure it out from there.  Your absorption rate is closely related to your metabolism.  I'm telling you, more calories will make you bigger.  High protien diets help for a bodybuilder during their "trimming" phase because while they are leaning out they obviously want to maintain their muscle mass.  A high protien diet will do that, as well as dehydrate you, which makes you more vascular.  That and other methods.  A professional off season bodybuilder eats whatever the hell they want and as much as they can stand.  Why?  Calories build muscle!  Energy in vs. energy out.  The laws of physics do not sway here, at all.

If you're a typical person wanting to simply stay in shape, all that protien won't do anything more than stop you up and kill your liver.  You're not using it so why bother.  I don't use any protien shakes at all and I'm bigger then some that stuff them down there throat three to four times a day. 

Not disputing what draven has said, but I wanted to make it clear what I meant.

[Anonymous]

I don't use any protien shakes at all and I'm bigger then some that stuff them down there throat three to four times a day.
The protein shakes I use for two reasons:

1. Natural protein is great, but I don’t always have access to it (I’m at work 10 hours a day). This way I can get my protein in. Natural is best, but it’s better to have some form of protein than none at all, I’m sure you’d agree.
2. I have this before I go to bed to prevent my body from eating my muscle since this is a complex protein (casein)…learned that here in the forums 🙂

If I had it my way, I’d be able to eat meat, egg whites, and have at all the milk I want.

Since you first mentioned it, I cut back my protein intake and I don’t feel weighed down. I drank a lot of water anyway but I could feel that it wasn’t always getting absorbed…I’m not sure how. It’d feel like a rock in my stomach or something, and no, I didn’t overeat. Now, I feel as if it metabolizes a lot easier. I get hungrier faster, too. I have also lost 4 pounds since starting this endurance training + lower cal diet + Hydroxycut, so now I’m back to my enlistment weight, which is 2 pounds under the max. I would like to lose at least 11 more pounds, which is absolutely do-able since while I was on my weight-loss diet using only diet and exercise (no supplements or fat loss pills), I lost 11 pounds per month. Since I have 8 weeks, I figure I can lose at LEAST 11 more pounds, which would put me at 150 and that would be the lowest I could ever remember being. Best case scenario: I lose more fat and end up at 145 with a body fat percent between 18-20 (although my goal is 15%, I’m not sure how realistic that is to achieve in 8 weeks…do you happen to know?).

[Mr. Stone]

I wasn't being critical, just pointing out that it's not necessary.  Time isn't always on our side, I know.

15% in eight weeks?  There are so many factors to look at that it's really impossible for me to tell.  If you get below 20% you're already below what is average for most women.  You know, normally healthy weight loss is about 1lb to a 1.5lb a week.  I'd say you're doing exceptionally well.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't being critical, just pointing out that it's not necessary.  Time isn't always on our side, I know.

15% in eight weeks?  There are so many factors to look at that it's really impossible for me to tell.  If you get below 20% you're already below what is average for most women.  You know, normally healthy weight loss is about 1lb to a 1.5lb a week.  I'd say you're doing exceptionally well.

Thanks.
Is there a way to calculate how many inches you lose to equate to your body fat loss?

[Mr. Stone]

Not accurately.  People lose fat in different order than some as well as build differently than others.

[Author]

Posts