[fasola]

Well, McGuinness’ and Romita’s art looks nice, but man that story is so lame, at least for me. I still can’t believe that Marvel decided to remove a good writer like Pak. For me his Planet Hulk storyline is awesome. They not only remove him, they then replace him with Loeb, who might have had amazing stories in the past, but lately he has lost his Mojo.

Like BTX said, JQ is really trashing thwe Marvel U.

What really pisses me off, is that each year a new event arrives, and we never get the chance to really see a good development on the aftermarth.

[Don Jack]

fasola wrote:

Well, McGuinness’ and Romita’s art looks nice, but man that story is so lame, at least for me. I still can’t believe that Marvel decided to remove a good writer like Pak. For me his Planet Hulk storyline is awesome. They not only remove him, they then replace him with Loeb, who might have had amazing stories in the past, but lately he has lost his Mojo.

Like BTX said, JQ is really trashing thwe Marvel U.

What really pisses me off, is that each year a new event arrives, and we never get the chance to really see a good development on the aftermarth.

You do realise there are two Hulk books right? One by Loeb and one by Pak and the Red She-Hulk reveal happend in his book(Technically it also happend in Loeb).

Also, blaming Q for Pak leaving is stupid, because Pak wanted to leave and do the Hercules ongoing, it was his choice. And like him or not, Loeb sells and his book has been a top seller.

Also, the Fall of the Hulks and WWHs storyline are actually good(Probably thanks to to Pak, Parker and Van lente).

No offence, but get your facts straight.

btx wrote:

If this revelation is true (And I suspect it is) This REALLY proves that Loeb is a bad writer / plotter. He has not played fair with the readers in terms of placing his “clues” throughout the story. If Rulk is indeed Ross, he doesn’t seem to recognize or give two shits that his beloved daughter has been turned into a monster. Likewise Betty/She-Rulk doesn’t recognize her own father when standing face to face. Banner can’t recognize her either? WTF? She’s the woman of his life, who was married to him for Christ’s sake and it’s not as if her metamorphosis made her look like a cave woman or deformed. I suppose it will be chalked up to Doc Samson’s mad hypnotic skills which he never had before.

I think there has been a real deterioration of storytelling at Marvel over the last few years. As ‘event’ storytelling dominates the market, writers derail characters constantly just to come up with crap big twists and OMG shock moments that violate everything that has been built up over many decades. Civil War, OMD (ESPECIALLY OMD!!) The Rulk/She Rulk saga have featured some of the worst writing by formerly gifted scribes who really seem to be working for the paycheck and not a well crafted story. This is Joe Queseda’s true legacy.

BTX

You do know Ross didn’t know Betty was She-Rulk right? Infact, he was schocked when he found out and so was she when she saw it was her father. Fact is, she doesn’t look like Betty as She-Rulk, Banner doesn’t look like himself as Hulk either.

Also, the clues on Red Hulk being Ross were there and they were obvious. I mean, the military jargon, the fact that he said he has fought the Hulk longer than anyone and the fact he Called bruce a “Milksop”.

Blaming JQ for this is completely uncalled far and completely baseless. Besides, FoH has actually been pretty good. Especially with the character development they have given Banner and Making the Leader a credible threat, the rest of inteligencia too for that matter.

[fasola]

Jack, maybe my facts weren’t accurate, but still that won’t change the way I think and see things. The reason why I believe that JQ is responsible for how the stories unfold, is bassicly because he is the editor in chief, wich by my understanding, means that among his responsabilities, he has to green light the stories that will be writen. You may say, that each title has a particular editor, but in the end everything has to go by him. So, if he is the one that approves the stories or the storyarcs, he is resposable for those stories.
Since Avengers Dissasembled, each summer there has been a storyarc that involves most of the MU. Because of that I had to read some titles that I usually didn’t read. So with me, the idea to popularize certain titles or improve their sales, worked perfectly, but bcause of that, I had to spend quite some money to keep up. Eventually I realized, that I was trying to read many books that I didn’t like, but if I wanted to understand what was going on storywise, I had to buy them. Eventually, the stories reached an end, but I was very disapointed wit hthe way they ended. Case in point “One More Day”, wich was drawn by Quesada, and co-ploted by him (he wrote the last issue). When I read “Back in Black” (wich leads to OMD) I was thrilled. I was finnally seeing spderman reach his point, cross the line, the story devoloped beutifully for me, and the OMD started, the stry went very good for me, untill the last issue, where they decided to obliterate the entire spiderman mythos, Not only that, but also decide to use the men in black gizmo on the entire universe, so nobody remembers anything. That for me is a lame way to end a story because you don’t want to take the risk of doing a more complex and mature ending.
To keep this short I will just say about Civil War that, for me, many characters’ side was chosen by the flip of a coin. I felt that some of the heroes side was wrong, but in that case it might be just me.
Beause I stoped reading spiderman in BND, I had no idea of Osborn doings, but when I’m trying to follow Invasion, I had to see him suddenly appear and “save the day”. It was one of my biggest WTF!? moments, when I read it.

To talk about more present times, take the case of Deadpool. Marvel decided to bring him back in the middle of Invasion. The first story was great, and the title evolved nicelly. But then, with the Wolverine movie and all that, we end up seing him in more titles than Wolverine. And eventually the stories aren’t as good, and I start to get a little saturated with him being everywhere.

And finally, I can’t take seriously a guy who said that Speedball was going to be the one that caused all the CW problem because he just didn’t like the character.

Anyway, that is how I see it. I could go on for hours.

[Evan Stanley]

Well, on the plus side… Betty Ross being the Red She Hulk is now officially the most interesting thing they have ever done with her character.

[BlackKusanagi]

Defiantly better than when she was “Harpy”. Although thats Marlo now.

[Holiday]

BlackKusanagi wrote:

Defiantly better than when she was “Harpy”. Although thats Marlo now.

Marlo became a Harpy? Is there no end to it?

[btx]

Don Jack wrote:

fasola wrote:

Well, McGuinness’ and Romita’s art looks nice, but man that story is so lame, at least for me. I still can’t believe that Marvel decided to remove a good writer like Pak. For me his Planet Hulk storyline is awesome. They not only remove him, they then replace him with Loeb, who might have had amazing stories in the past, but lately he has lost his Mojo.

Like BTX said, JQ is really trashing thwe Marvel U.

What really pisses me off, is that each year a new event arrives, and we never get the chance to really see a good development on the aftermarth.

You do realise there are two Hulk books right? One by Loeb and one by Pak and the Red She-Hulk reveal happend in his book(Technically it also happend in Loeb).

Also, blaming Q for Pak leaving is stupid, because Pak wanted to leave and do the Hercules ongoing, it was his choice. And like him or not, Loeb sells and his book has been a top seller.

Also, the Fall of the Hulks and WWHs storyline are actually good(Probably thanks to to Pak, Parker and Van lente).

No offence, but get your facts straight.

btx wrote:

If this revelation is true (And I suspect it is) This REALLY proves that Loeb is a bad writer / plotter. He has not played fair with the readers in terms of placing his “clues” throughout the story. If Rulk is indeed Ross, he doesn’t seem to recognize or give two shits that his beloved daughter has been turned into a monster. Likewise Betty/She-Rulk doesn’t recognize her own father when standing face to face. Banner can’t recognize her either? WTF? She’s the woman of his life, who was married to him for Christ’s sake and it’s not as if her metamorphosis made her look like a cave woman or deformed. I suppose it will be chalked up to Doc Samson’s mad hypnotic skills which he never had before.

I think there has been a real deterioration of storytelling at Marvel over the last few years. As ‘event’ storytelling dominates the market, writers derail characters constantly just to come up with crap big twists and OMG shock moments that violate everything that has been built up over many decades. Civil War, OMD (ESPECIALLY OMD!!) The Rulk/She Rulk saga have featured some of the worst writing by formerly gifted scribes who really seem to be working for the paycheck and not a well crafted story. This is Joe Queseda’s true legacy.

BTX

You do know Ross didn’t know Betty was She-Rulk right? Infact, he was schocked when he found out and so was she when she saw it was her father. Fact is, she doesn’t look like Betty as She-Rulk, Banner doesn’t look like himself as Hulk either.

Also, the clues on Red Hulk being Ross were there and they were obvious. I mean, the military jargon, the fact that he said he has fought the Hulk longer than anyone and the fact he Called bruce a “Milksop”.

Blaming JQ for this is completely uncalled far and completely baseless. Besides, FoH has actually been pretty good. Especially with the character development they have given Banner and Making the Leader a credible threat, the rest of inteligencia too for that matter.

If she had a square jaw, hairy armpits and sideburns, then yeah I could see how her own father might miss a resemblance.

She Rulk is taller and redder and that’s it. She no more looks radically different that Jennifer Walters and She Hulk. At one point Bruce Banner – her former husband – looks right at her and doesn’t know who she is. And this is after he brings along a doo-hickey that supposed to tell if Betty is real or a LMD. What, he can’t do a scan of DNA? And he’s supposed to be among the top three smartest? That’s the problem with the saga… a lot of fake misdirection based on characters taking stupid pills.

BTX

[BlackKusanagi]

Holiday wrote:

BlackKusanagi wrote:

Defiantly better than when she was “Harpy”. Although thats Marlo now.

Marlo became a Harpy? Is there no end to it?

Incredible Hulk #604.

And no. No end in sight apparently.

[Don Jack]

btx wrote:

Don Jack wrote:

fasola wrote:
[quote]Well, McGuinness’ and Romita’s art looks nice, but man that story is so lame, at least for me. I still can’t believe that Marvel decided to remove a good writer like Pak. For me his Planet Hulk storyline is awesome. They not only remove him, they then replace him with Loeb, who might have had amazing stories in the past, but lately he has lost his Mojo.

Like BTX said, JQ is really trashing thwe Marvel U.

What really pisses me off, is that each year a new event arrives, and we never get the chance to really see a good development on the aftermarth.

You do realise there are two Hulk books right? One by Loeb and one by Pak and the Red She-Hulk reveal happend in his book(Technically it also happend in Loeb).

Also, blaming Q for Pak leaving is stupid, because Pak wanted to leave and do the Hercules ongoing, it was his choice. And like him or not, Loeb sells and his book has been a top seller.

Also, the Fall of the Hulks and WWHs storyline are actually good(Probably thanks to to Pak, Parker and Van lente).

No offence, but get your facts straight.

btx wrote:

If this revelation is true (And I suspect it is) This REALLY proves that Loeb is a bad writer / plotter. He has not played fair with the readers in terms of placing his “clues” throughout the story. If Rulk is indeed Ross, he doesn’t seem to recognize or give two shits that his beloved daughter has been turned into a monster. Likewise Betty/She-Rulk doesn’t recognize her own father when standing face to face. Banner can’t recognize her either? WTF? She’s the woman of his life, who was married to him for Christ’s sake and it’s not as if her metamorphosis made her look like a cave woman or deformed. I suppose it will be chalked up to Doc Samson’s mad hypnotic skills which he never had before.

I think there has been a real deterioration of storytelling at Marvel over the last few years. As ‘event’ storytelling dominates the market, writers derail characters constantly just to come up with crap big twists and OMG shock moments that violate everything that has been built up over many decades. Civil War, OMD (ESPECIALLY OMD!!) The Rulk/She Rulk saga have featured some of the worst writing by formerly gifted scribes who really seem to be working for the paycheck and not a well crafted story. This is Joe Queseda’s true legacy.

BTX

You do know Ross didn’t know Betty was She-Rulk right? Infact, he was schocked when he found out and so was she when she saw it was her father. Fact is, she doesn’t look like Betty as She-Rulk, Banner doesn’t look like himself as Hulk either.

Also, the clues on Red Hulk being Ross were there and they were obvious. I mean, the military jargon, the fact that he said he has fought the Hulk longer than anyone and the fact he Called bruce a “Milksop”.

Blaming JQ for this is completely uncalled far and completely baseless. Besides, FoH has actually been pretty good. Especially with the character development they have given Banner and Making the Leader a credible threat, the rest of inteligencia too for that matter.

If she had a square jaw, hairy armpits and sideburns, then yeah I could see how her own father might miss a resemblance.

She Rulk is taller and redder and that’s it. She no more looks radically different that Jennifer Walters and She Hulk. At one point Bruce Banner – her former husband – looks right at her and doesn’t know who she is. And this is after he brings along a doo-hickey that supposed to tell if Betty is real or a LMD. What, he can’t do a scan of DNA? And he’s supposed to be among the top three smartest? That’s the problem with the saga… a lot of fake misdirection based on characters taking stupid pills.

BTX[/quote]

Except she doesn’t look like betty when She’s She-Rulk, There’s actually a clear difference, both in Personality(much like with most Gamma mutates) and in looks, you even notice that when she reverts. Also, it’s hard to tell people apart when they’ve grown in hight and in Muscle, gained glowing Yellow eyes and have Red skin. The times you see betty shinning through(when she tried to free Jen) it’s usually when around Inteligencia.

As for the LMD, that’s when Banner saw Betty was back, but at the time he’d had no reason to think she was an Red She-Hulk. Besides, all the device would tell him is that Red She-Hulk is not an LMD.

fasola wrote:

Jack, maybe my facts weren’t accurate, but still that won’t change the way I think and see things. The reason why I believe that JQ is responsible for how the stories unfold, is bassicly because he is the editor in chief, wich by my understanding, means that among his responsabilities, he has to green light the stories that will be writen. You may say, that each title has a particular editor, but in the end everything has to go by him. So, if he is the one that approves the stories or the storyarcs, he is resposable for those stories.
Since Avengers Dissasembled, each summer there has been a storyarc that involves most of the MU. Because of that I had to read some titles that I usually didn’t read. So with me, the idea to popularize certain titles or improve their sales, worked perfectly, but bcause of that, I had to spend quite some money to keep up. Eventually I realized, that I was trying to read many books that I didn’t like, but if I wanted to understand what was going on storywise, I had to buy them. Eventually, the stories reached an end, but I was very disapointed wit hthe way they ended. Case in point “One More Day”, wich was drawn by Quesada, and co-ploted by him (he wrote the last issue). When I read “Back in Black” (wich leads to OMD) I was thrilled. I was finnally seeing spderman reach his point, cross the line, the story devoloped beutifully for me, and the OMD started, the stry went very good for me, untill the last issue, where they decided to obliterate the entire spiderman mythos, Not only that, but also decide to use the men in black gizmo on the entire universe, so nobody remembers anything. That for me is a lame way to end a story because you don’t want to take the risk of doing a more complex and mature ending.
To keep this short I will just say about Civil War that, for me, many characters’ side was chosen by the flip of a coin. I felt that some of the heroes side was wrong, but in that case it might be just me.
Beause I stoped reading spiderman in BND, I had no idea of Osborn doings, but when I’m trying to follow Invasion, I had to see him suddenly appear and “save the day”. It was one of my biggest WTF!? moments, when I read it.

To talk about more present times, take the case of Deadpool. Marvel decided to bring him back in the middle of Invasion. The first story was great, and the title evolved nicelly. But then, with the Wolverine movie and all that, we end up seing him in more titles than Wolverine. And eventually the stories aren’t as good, and I start to get a little saturated with him being everywhere.

And finally, I can’t take seriously a guy who said that Speedball was going to be the one that caused all the CW problem because he just didn’t like the character.

Anyway, that is how I see it. I could go on for hours.

Osborn got into power because of what happend in Thunderbolts, not Spider-man. He was director of the Thundrbolts during Ellis’s run.

Also, aside from every book getting an alternate cover of Wolverine, Wolverine wasn’t showing up in every book. If anything, they toned his appearances dow during that time(compared to how it was before). On the Deadpool thing you might have a point, but this is business, and the guy has become very popular these days.

As for the Speedball thing, people forget he said that jokingly.

Besides, if a story is good or Bad is Subjective, There are people who do like the books you’ve mentioned.

Seriously though, If you like Greg Pak’s Hulk, you should check out his current run on Incredible. What he did to Hulk in Planet Hulk, he’s doing to Banner now.

Holiday wrote:

BlackKusanagi wrote:

Defiantly better than when she was “Harpy”. Although thats Marlo now.

Marlo became a Harpy? Is there no end to it?

It was done by the Leader and his whole MO has always been about mutating people(and humanity in general) Into Gamma Mutates.

[gokuman7]

Here is a nice pic of her arm
[/URL]

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and here is when her arm gets bigger
[/URL]

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[Author]

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