[cpbell0033944]

You didn't offend me, alex – I just suggested that you weren't very diplomatic.  You make a very valid point about times changing.  I suspect that guys like AlexG and Lingster are of a generation slightly before my own who can remember those days and who still fear their resurgence.  As you say, in most countries (excepting those such as North Korea) the popularity of Marxist/extreme Socialist politics has crashed through the floor.  This means that younger voters, who seem to be supporting Obama, are not worried about the US becoming a Communist state.

Mimi – er, I don't know what to say! 😮 ;D  Your comment has certainly lightened my mood in this thread but I'm a bit speechless!  I know a lot of guys drool over her.  I can see why – her assertiveness and confidence is a change from meek and mild First Ladies, I suppose, but I just can't get past the "I can see Russia from my front window!" effect. ::)

[Reason]

You didn't offend me, alex – I just suggested that you weren't very diplomatic.  You make a very valid point about times changing.  I suspect that guys like AlexG and Lingster are of a generation slightly before my own who can remember those days and who still fear their resurgence.  As you say, in most countries (excepting those such as North Korea) the popularity of Marxist/extreme Socialist politics has crashed through the floor.  This means that younger voters, who seem to be supporting Obama, are not worried about the US becoming a Communist state.

…and Lingster and AlexG are diplomatic when they share their political views!?!?

It seems that a lot of people think that capitalism and socialism are mutually exclusive, and you either believe in one approach or the other, no matter what. I believe you need both to move a country forward, which is why most democracies tend to flip-flop between conservative and liberal governments. If Obama totally neglects all other areas in favor of socialism, the effects will be felt and he will no doubt be voted out in 4 years. At least we can all agree that democracy is a good thing.

[cpbell0033944]

…and Lingster and AlexG are diplomatic when they share their political views!?!?

It seems that a lot of people think that capitalism and socialism are mutually exclusive, and you either believe in one approach or the other, no matter what. I believe you need both to move a country forward, which is why most democracies tend to flip-flop between conservative and liberal governments. If Obama totally neglects all other areas in favor of socialism, the effects will be felt and he will no doubt be voted out in 4 years. At least we can all agree that democracy is a good thing.

I consider AlexG to be diplomatic but firm.  Lingster sometimes states opinion as fact, as is a very robust debater, but I rarely feel that he crosses the boundary of accusing people of not understanding the situation.  I fully agree that both aspects need to be explored to have healthy governance of a country.  As far as I can discern from listening to his speeches, Obama appears willing to consider both facets, and, despite the best efforts of Fox News to suggest the contrary, he has a record of crossing the aisle to work on important legslation.  You make a good point about public accountability.  One of the implications of Lingster's and DCM's fear of Obama is that they don't seem to credit their fellow citizens with the sense or will to vote him out in 2012 if he does somehow turn-out to be a Socialist nightmare.

[Hunter S Creek]

Neither Senator McCain not Senator Obama appeal to me.  However, Senator McCain is clearly the lesser of two poor choices.  I have no love for President Bush but I do feel that overall we are better off with him than we would have been with former Senator Al Gore or Senator John Kerry as President.

Senator Obama has spent his entire career hiding who he is.  And, this is despite writing two, count them, two autobiographies.  We basically have only his word for who he is.  Senator Obama has very carefully left a microscopically small objective paper trail.  Governor Palin has been investigated more thoroughly by the entrenched national media in the last month than Senator Obama has in his entire career. 

It is that reality more than almost any other that leads me to distrust any candidate that is so obviously supported by the entrenched national media.  They have already proven their willingness, if not eagerness, to overlook or cover-up Senator Obama's obvious flaws, short-comings and, most importantly, misdeeds.  The same media is also busily covering-up for his fellow Democrats (Senators Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, etc. and Representatives Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, etc.) regarding their key roles in creating the current financial mess. 

Imagine if former President Richard Nixon had been elected with similar media support.  We would never have heard of "Watergate".  If Monica Lewinsky had not kept that blue dress, she would have been dismissed or destroyed like the scores of other women who were former President Clinton's aerobic partners.

Just once, Americans should vote against every single incumbent at every level.

Regarding the idea that Americans fear anything that is controlled or funded by the government; it is because Americans have never experienced anything that has been government-controlled that actually works well!  Many of us have either lived in or have friends or relatives in socialist countries.  (I had to wait over six months to have a telephone approved and installed in my house in Germany.)

Nothing strikes fear into the hearts of the average American more than the idea of legions of unaccountable, impossible to fire (a.k.a., sack), face-less, name-less bureaucrats having even more control over their lives.  Do you really want someone like the clerk whom you last saw at the DMV or the last TSA inspector who had you remove your shoes at the airport deciding your healthcare or how you get to work or where your child can go to school and what that child will learn or even how many children you may have?

Leadership, intelligence, and experience are both very important qualities when deciding on a President.  So is a strong moral compass and a sense of dedication to the country and its people.  Senator Obama has demonstrated none of these.

Tschuss!
Hunter

[alex]

Public healthcare works at in all the other countries, why wouldn't they work in the US, who has more money then anyone?

In most countries, if you have money and a private insurance, you can treat yourself into any hospital or doctor you can afford to.  But if you don't have money, or are unemployed, you can still get all the medical treatment you need.  If you get a head wound, you're going to get a tomography, if you develop cancer, you're going to get chemo or radio treatments and if you get HIV you're going to get all the cocktails you need to treat your disease.

Of course, in some countries this works better then others. And even in the same countries there are major differences in efficiency depending on the region.  But still, even the availability of a bad public healthcare, is better then none at all, if you're broke and sick.

[cpbell0033944]

To say that Obama does not display intelligence is, to me, a baffling statement.  Also, to mention two autobiographies yet complain thatwe only have his word for it – isn't that the definition of an autobiography?  Are we saying that Americans (and please remember I'm not American) should only vote for people who have had someone trustworthy write a biography on them?  And where does that leave Sarah Palin?

[Reason]

Neither Senator McCain not Senator Obama appeal to me.  However, Senator McCain is clearly the lesser of two poor choices.  I have no love for President Bush but I do feel that overall we are better off with him than we would have been with former Senator Al Gore or Senator John Kerry as President.

I don't think the Iraq war would have happened if Senator Al Gore had been elected, so I think it's hard to say that. Sure, there would possibly be one more dictator in the world than there is now, but over a million people wouldn't have needlessly died.

Senator Obama has spent his entire career hiding who he is.  And, this is despite writing two, count them, two autobiographies.  We basically have only his word for who he is.  Senator Obama has very carefully left a microscopically small objective paper trail.

What is your evidence for this, or is this just what gets said when you can't find any dirt on someone?

It is that reality more than almost any other that leads me to distrust any candidate that is so obviously supported by the entrenched national media.  They have already proven their willingness, if not eagerness, to overlook or cover-up Senator Obama's obvious flaws, short-comings and, most importantly, misdeeds.  The same media is also busily covering-up for his fellow Democrats (Senators Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, etc. and Representatives Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, etc.) regarding their key roles in creating the current financial mess. 

Man, whatever happened to "the buck stops here!"? America's financial crisis may not totally be the current government's fault, but it is still responsible for it, since the management of the economy is one of the government's key roles.

Imagine if former President Richard Nixon had been elected with similar media support.  We would never have heard of "Watergate".  If Monica Lewinsky had not kept that blue dress, she would have been dismissed or destroyed like the scores of other women who were former President Clinton's aerobic partners.

Just once, Americans should vote against every single incumbent at every level.

I've never understood the whole "liberal media" label. Media companies are money making corporations like any other, and the only agenda they have is to make as much profit as possible. If they do favor one candidate over another, surely it's because it's what they think will "sell" the best.

Regarding the idea that Americans fear anything that is controlled or funded by the government; it is because Americans have never experienced anything that has been government-controlled that actually works well!  Many of us have either lived in or have friends or relatives in socialist countries.  (I had to wait over six months to have a telephone approved and installed in my house in Germany.)

Nothing strikes fear into the hearts of the average American more than the idea of legions of unaccountable, impossible to fire (a.k.a., sack), face-less, name-less bureaucrats having even more control over their lives.  Do you really want someone like the clerk whom you last saw at the DMV or the last TSA inspector who had you remove your shoes at the airport deciding your healthcare or how you get to work or where your child can go to school and what that child will learn or even how many children you may have?

Isn't the idea of the faceless, nameless bureaucrat rather outdated? There's no reason a government organization can't be run exactly the same as a corporation. I, personally, have worked in both the private and public sector during my career and can't say that I ever noticed the difference.

[CaptMalcomReynolds]

" Senator Obama has spent his entire career hiding who he is.  And, this is despite writing two, count them, two autobiographies.  We basically have only his word for who he is.  Senator Obama has very carefully left a microscopically small objective paper trail."

What is your evidence for this, or is this just what gets said when you can't find any dirt on someone?

Interesting that you should ask this. Maybe you should check this out Reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16aBNduAyQ4  (Sums it up pretty nicely.)

Oh, and in case you haven't been listening to happenings in the blogosphere, you might also be interested in this which is a CURRENT Lawsuit asking Obama to file a VAULTED copy of his birth certificate (not a digital copy posted online.) It's interesting that the DNC has filed a counter suit to DROP the case.

Now, why would the DNC spend thousands of dollars paying attorneys and filing a counter suit when they could simply go to Hawaii and spend $30 bucks for a vaulted copy of his birth certificate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w

Doesn't make much sense.

Oh, and lets not mention Obama's 20 year relationship with Reverend Wright, his ties to William Ayers, or the DNC's current use of ACORN to steal the election in Ohio, parts of Missouri, and over 4,000 dead people registered to vote on the voter rolls in Houston.

So when Hunter says that Obama tries to hide things about his past, I think Hunter has a valid base on which to express some distress regarding Obama's veracity.

[alex]

I only saw the first video.  If that word-twisting, fact-twisting propaganda is where you base your facts on, I won't even bother watching the second one.

Let's all post some Youtube videos and make a big video fest!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBA7dsg5L1I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAInJKu1yQU

[cpbell0033944]

If Americans now need to revolve in ever decreasing circles until they disappear up their own exhaust pipes about how American their Presidential candidates are, let's take a look at McCain's certificate.  He wasn't born in the US. ::)

I never suggested that Obama was perfect; he's as flawed as anyone, I just think that an Obama/Biden pairing is a better option that McCain/Palin. 

I love the utter lack of irony of a video whose narrator says he wants McCain/Palin because he wants a "Patriot, not a politician."  What on earth is MCain if not a politician?  Is he Captain Birdsye?  Or a chef?  Or a brain surgeon?  No.  He's a politician, and a Washington insider at that, yet he has suddenly decided to break-up the old boys network of which he has been a part since goodness knows when?  Pull the other one.  Don't forget he has his fair share of dodgy associations – Parsley and Hagee are his Wright, Gramm is toxic and McCain's running mates husband was, until recently, a member of a seccessionist party.  Both men are tainted, just as are 99% of all politicians who ascend to that level.  Even Winston Churchill, our favourite PM of all time, was tainted by involvement in bombing civilians in, ironically enough, what is now Iraq, and by the fiasco of the Dardanelles campaign during WW1 when he was First Sealord of the Admiralty.

[Author]

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