[cpbell0033944]

Don't know where to post this, but I thought here was as good a place as anywhere.  Part of my attraction to muscular women comes from my belief in certain areas of feminist theory; mainly the idea that women should not be scared of mugging, rape etc.  This lead to a love of the concept of a physically strong, confident woman who could defend herself and leave her attacker in a much worse condition than she is.  This, in turn, led to a feeling of sexual attraction to such a woman.  I'd be interested to know if anybody else has experienced the same feelings, or can at least understand what I mean. ::)

[stmercy2020]

Can I get an "AMEN," brother?

I teach karate and self-defense, and one of the things I love best about it is when a woman who was formerly very timid starts to understand that she never has to be completely helpless.  Those FMG/Strength stories you mention are just amped up versions of what I do in reality, and I love it.

[cpbell0033944]

Can I get an "AMEN," brother?

I teach karate and self-defense, and one of the things I love best about it is when a woman who was formerly very timid starts to understand that she never has to be completely helpless.  Those FMG/Strength stories you mention are just amped up versions of what I do in reality, and I love it.

Imagine what you could acheive training a woman who was already properly buff! 😮

[stmercy2020]

Oh, I do, believe you me!  I've had a couple of students who were moderately athletic- cheerleaders or hockey players, mostly- and it's really a lot of fun to work with them because they already have some body awareness, so it's really just showing them how to use what they've already got.  How to take and maintain space, how to assert their presence, and how to use their bodies to their best advantage instead of trying to match their weakest parts against an attacker's strongest.

[cpbell0033944]

The point is that not all men are as strong as each other, yet we don't hear shorter, less muscular guys being told to not venture out after dark, carry a torch (flashlight), etc.  Of course not: they're men, so their testosterone makes them invulnerable, doesn't it?  It's only poor little itty-bitty women that are vulnerable! <End sarcasm>

I'd love to hear the "women are weak and can't defend themselves so they must spend their lives terrified" crowd explain this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eZZWzJCLYA

Go Nikki!  What a woman!  The guy who says she can beat-up 90% of the men in the world is wrong; it's more like 98%!

[stmercy2020]

Heh.  How very true.  I work with a bodybuilder at one of the dojos I train at.  One of the things that surprised the hell out of me the first time we played was not how strong he was, but rather how limber.  He has like three times the arms I have, but it's all fast-twitch muscle and he can move with blinding speed when he sets his mind to it.

The thing is, men are socialized to fight and to think and act aggressively.  Women have to be brought to that way of thinking through training, overcoming generations of social programming in the process.  For most women, it's a struggle.  I actually had a woman tell me once that she didn't want to kiai (yell) during a self-defense because, "I don't want to be mean."  That's the sort of thinking that society has told women is right, and it goes hand-in-hand with the idea that women should be submissive, passive, and weak.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, here, but I hate that crap.

And, yes, go Nikki!

[cpbell0033944]

The thing is, men are socialized to fight and to think and act aggressively.  Women have to be brought to that way of thinking through training, overcoming generations of social programming in the process.  For most women, it's a struggle.  I actually had a woman tell me once that she didn't want to kiai (yell) during a self-defense because, "I don't want to be mean."  That's the sort of thinking that society has told women is right, and it goes hand-in-hand with the idea that women should be submissive, passive, and weak.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, here, but I hate that crap.

And, yes, go Nikki!

This member of the choir likes be preached-to.  I couldn't agree more with you.  Those who would have all women weak and passive say that, if women become strong and assertive, they lose their femininity.  As far as I'm concerned, other than (possibly) a stone-butch woman in a lesbian butch-femme relationship, or if an FBB overdoes the steroids, it's impossible for any woman to lose even some of her femininity.  To me, assertive, strong, confident "body-aware" women, as you put it, are MORE feminine than the timid, skinny, passive girls because they have enhanced themselves both physically in strength and shapeliness, and in mind.  They have imporoved themselves as women and have ceased to hate their body, to diet in order to shrink it, (which I loathe, urgh! >:() but instead are revelling in their female, muscular curves and the strength, power and sensuality of the bodies.  That's feminine.  That's sexy.  Actually, no, it's not sexy – it's mind-blowingly, trouser-tentingly supersexy. 😮 8) ;D
Yikes, I need a cold shower after that! 😮 ;D

[cpbell0033944]

Hmmm, don't know what you think, stmercy, but I reckon it seems that we're the only guys on here who appreciate that side of things – you know, the idea that it's cool for a woman to be powerful and independent (know what i mean? ;D ;))  Looks like all the other folks here just go for the "whoa, she's hot" reaction and don't think any deeper than that. ;D 😉 ::) 

[stmercy2020]

Hmmm, don't know what you think, stmercy, but I reckon it seems that we're the only guys on here who appreciate that side of things – you know, the idea that it's cool for a woman to be powerful and independent (know what i mean? ;D ;))  Looks like all the other folks here just go for the "whoa, she's hot" reaction and don't think any deeper than that. ;D 😉 ::) 

I've been pondering this for awhile, now.  I actually decided to let this sit for a day to see if anything came to the surface from this, as I know that a large part of the reason cpbell's post was phrased the way it was was as an attempt to get a reaction beyond pure apathy.

I think what may be happening here is that the question is kind of too broad, and too easily answered by a simple 'yes' or (unlikely on this forum) 'no.'

That said, I'd like to take the question in a slightly different direction.  As cpbell pointed out, it is very difficult for a woman to "lose femininity"- it isn't exactly a limited commodity, after all.  If you are born a woman, you are, by definition, feminine, at least biologically.  The problem comes in with social norms- what women and men are expected to do in order to be perceived as womanly women or manly men.

What I think would be an interesting question is: what limits should a woman- or a man, for that matter, but this is a board about amaz0ns ;D- be allowed and/or expected to go to when defending herself?  Are those limits different if a woman gains physical power? (The argument that, essentially, Might Makes Right- most people I think would answer no, but that is one of the most basic rules society is based on: people who have power make the rules, people who have no power are forced to submit) 

Are there any sorts of extenuating circumstances that might change the equation- make more or less acceptable? 

As an example, I would point out that there used to be a law in MI- I believe it is no longer enforced, but it may still be on the books- that said that if you were attacked you had to back away and state that you "did not want to fight" three times before you were allowed to defend yourself.  There was, however, an exception, called the 'Castle Rule,' which basically said that if you were a) protecting your immediate family (spouse or children), b) at your home, or c) at your place of business, you did not have to give warning in the event of an attack.

[cpbell0033944]

Wonderful response there from everybody.

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