[GWHH]

All very good points here.  But you missed an important one, its all the same AMOUNT of steriods one takes.  From what I have read and such.  The people mos tlikey to go "roid rage" are taken amssive dosages of the stuff for years. 

If you take less than 100 milgrams per day and use only one type at time.  You are very unlikey to go nuts.  Pro BB take as much as 3-500 millgrams a day during heavy cycles, that much would be bad for a horse.  Let alone people.

I alos argee.  People who are more driven are more likey to take the stuff.  ANd yes after you go from small guy to huge built guy in like 2 years.  I think you would be looken to settle old scores and not take crap from anyone any more. 

There are some other effects, like acne, that apparently are common when large amounts of steroids are taken.  I was surprised to learn that the claims of "roid rage," or heightened aggression, may not be linked directly to steroids.  Unless I am mistaken, there are no studies making a clear link.  It could very well be that roid rage is simply a result of the types of personalities that are drawn to use PEDs (highly aggressive and competitive types).  Put 40 pounds of muscle on an otherwise cautious guy, and he may begin to feel as if he need not be so cautious.  It's also a great excuse for someone to use to cover for violent behavior.  But I would point out that there is also not enough proof against the idea.

The lack of well-publicized research on steroids combines with another factor to make for a very muddled situation– there are many anti-steroid and anti-PED groups that use propaganda and unverified claims to give the impression that steroids are lethal and extremely dangerous (one example being to display lists of people "killed" by steroids; the lists are nearly always full of names whose deaths had nothing to do with steroids, such as NFL player Lyle Alzado).  The problem with this point of view is that there is plenty of evidence that PEDs do exactly what their name implies- they enhance performance.  The sports figures that are constantly being criticized for steroid use are usually the top names in their respective sports, people who have garnered a lot of fame and ridiculous amounts of money.  If you're an 18 or 19 year-old who has a chance to try out for a college sports program with an eye towards a pro career, do you trust the website that tells you that steroids are a dead end, or do you look at Alex Rodriguez, who admitted to steroid use and who is set to make something like $500-750 million before his career ends?

What we need is to push for more studies and publicize them for better or worse.  Also, to point out that there ARE dangers to steroid/PED use, particularly for young men and women.  Third, major sports bodies HAVE to tackle the problem directly and forcefully.  I am afraid that the last one will be the least likely, and so long as athletes can make millions of dollars and sports bodies try to look the other way, the temptation to cheat will be too great for young people.
[/quote]

[ant1937]

Roid rage is real. No question. It may not happen to every user, but is is real. Back acne, increased body hair, less hair on your head, enlarged breasts on men 9 see Arod book for a recent mention of that well known side effect, penis shrinkage, and a deepening of the voice in women.

Listen to some pro fbbs talk. The deep voice is not coincidence. There are so many effects. It makesyou bigger, faster, and stronger. However, the effect ends with use and the side affects often do not. Once again…amounts and length of use is huge.

No studies are needed. The stuff is illegal. I think we have enough info. I've seen many a human guinea pig and most have had awful long term effects with long term usage.

[ant1937]

Arnold, Bonds, Clemens, and Arod were some of many who made a killing off of roids. It is the 1 in 100 that turn out well that keep things going. The MLB players actually have an interesting cocktail of drugs. Roids are only part of it. They also make enough to not need to be dealers.

BBers do not and only a few make any money. There is a money incentive in some cases. You also have the keeping up with the Jones mentality in most strength sports. If A doesit,then b must as well. You see that in pro bbing and pro sports. The olympics get blood and are tough. You'd better have a great new drug.

[Tonus]

Here's a controversial thougfht – is it time for the US and UK to legalise and regulate steroids for over-18s, with a commensurate education programme?  The whole idea of treating adults like adults?

What is weird is that in the USA, steroids are classified on the same level as drugs like cocaine and heroine.  Yet, steroids and steroid derivatives are found in products that are used to treat a number of conditions.  Steroids are still used for one of their earliest purposes, to treat growth deficiencies in children.  An athlete in any of the major pro sports who suffers a mild muscle or joint injury may be given cortisone shots in order to allow him to continue to play.  Even anabolic steroids can be prescribed by a doctor for patients over a certain age.  It is used the way any powerful medicine is- available via the proper channels and restricted in use.  But most medicines, even ones with a number of dangerous side effects, are not demonized the way steroids are.

I think that we do need an education program, but more importantly we need controlled medical tests.  It would also be a good idea to check the health of the dozens (and perhaps hundreds) of bodybuilders who have used steroids regularly for a specific period of time.  A number of bodybuilders are known to have developed health problems, and some of them insist that it is due to steroid use.  I think it's long past time we cleared that issue up.  If it *is* from steroid use, we need to know.  If it isn't, then we need to know if it was another agent, or if it is just a result of normal occurrence.  We have this incredibly powerful hormone that has amazing positive effects, as well as a handful of minor negative effects, and a whole lot of negative effects that we're not entirely sure are due to their use or not.  It's time we found out for sure.

[Tonus]

Roid rage is real. No question. It may not happen to every user, but is is real.

This was my point of view for a long time, and I still think that roid rage exists, and that as GWHH said, it may be due to dosages.  But there have been studies of steroid use, and none that showed increased aggressiveness as a result of steroid use.  The evidence is, as far as I can tell, completely anecdotal.  In other words, any time a muscular guy loses his cool, it's automatically attributed to roid rage.  Even if the person in question doesn't use steroids!

According to HBO's Real Sports, which did a story on steroids (and assigned an investigator who was decidedly anti-steroid to it), there was a study done where men were given relatively high doses of steroids and the only observable effect on the group was a few cases of acne.  As far as I know, there is still no definitive link between steroids and increased aggression.  There are just anecdotes and the insistence from people who have probably seen a couple of bodybuilders lose their temper… something that happens to a lot of people every single day, for reasons not linked to steroid use.

No studies are needed. The stuff is illegal. I think we have enough info. I've seen many a human guinea pig and most have had awful long term effects with long term usage.

The reason we need studies is because we don't have enough info from controlled tests.  There are many pro-steroid proponents who point out that the majority of steroid users only ever suffer from the mildest effects… shrunken testicles, or acne.  There are anti-steroid proponents who claim a long list of people crippled and dead due to steroids.  I think it's critical to find out why some people used steroids for decades with few or no ill effects, and whether or not those people who are dead or in very bad health are from steroid use.  And if so, how did those people use it?  Andreas Munzer, for example, clearly died from use of PEDs, but it's just as obvious that steroids were not the only factor.

PED use is still rumored to be very high in pro sports.  I doubt that the ratio of 'successes' is 1-in-100.  It is likely to be much higher, and thus the pressure for young people to gravitate to steroids is considerable.  I think it's much better if they understand the risks beforehand.  And the only way to know for sure is proper and controlled testing.

[chris10000]

so much false facts

andreas münzer died from a cortisol blocking medicament, which had the side effect of dont stop the bleeding.

to treat growth deffeciencies hgh (human growth hormones are used… no steroids (in fact steroids used in young would stop the growth)

roid rage happens to the same people that get aggresive on alcohol (is alcohol banned because of this?) and not from all steroids …remember : steoids are a group like painkillers…and like not all painkillers have the same side effect, not all steroids are the same.

[Tonus]

so much false facts

If they're false, they can't be facts.

andreas münzer died from a cortisol blocking medicament, which had the side effect of dont stop the bleeding.

I admit that much of Munzer's case is rumor-based, and there are any number of "sources" that tell different (and sometimes conflicting) stories.  What was the official cause of death?  I've read people claim that it was multiple organ failure, others that it was stomach bleeding.  Why was he taking a cortisol blocker?  Some say it was to control a stomach ailment, others that it was a side effect of a drug used to lower estrogen levels.  I'll take back the statement that his death was "obviously" from PED use, but the implication remains strong lacking a definitive source, such as a death certificate or an official statement from the hospital where he was pronounced dead.

If you have a source of reliable information I'd love to have it, as I have not found one.

to treat growth deffeciencies hgh (human growth hormones are used… no steroids (in fact steroids used in young would stop the growth)

You are correct, what I should have said was that steroids were used in the past to treat Growth Failure and Drawfism in children.  HGH has replaced steroids as the treatment of choice in most growth-related problems in children.

[chris10000]

he took it to lower estrogen level…for more hardness

ok.. next facts are not for fbb…just facts…and also because of other sports

some steroids like deca duraboline or primobolan or testoviron depot are called save in the medical literature…and they are much used for people with accidents , older people , even aids etc.
some here told drugtesting in sports would help…in fact the testing made it more dangerous…instead of taking something relatice save now the athletes take something new, not detectable (but without knowledge of positive sideeffects)…modern athletes very seldom use steroids (if, some short acting)..now its epo, own blood injecting etc..

the people who think any record made clean are maybe believing to santa claus also.
it was allways the governments who made the atlethes take something for propaganda reasons.

hitler (doctors told by him)invented the first syntetic testosterone to propagand his white race at the olympics in berlin 1936…east germany had the oral turinabol …bulgary had own clinics to wash the blood…i could make an endless list..but it was allways the governments…even at last olympics a svizzer lab who could detect growht hormones wasnt allowed to come to china (china has some factories to produce )

its simply to much money (not from the athletes) from sponsors , tv …sport is a big industry
sometimes they catch out a bauer restorative (somebody not important enough from a not so important country)like ben johnson (it was called he got caught for stanozonol…nobody could be this stupid, because stanzonol is out of the blood in one day)…
but if they would catch ALL users, who would watch a sprint of 11 seconds…nobody would watch any sports anymore..
the government needs this heros (like the gladiators in rome) to distract from real problems

[Tonus]

its simply to much money (not from the athletes) from sponsors , tv …sport is a big industry
sometimes they catch out a bauer restorative (somebody not important enough from a not so important country)like ben johnson (it was called he got caught for stanozonol…nobody could be this stupid, because stanzonol is out of the blood in one day)…
but if they would catch ALL users, who would watch a sprint of 11 seconds…nobody would watch any sports anymore..
the government needs this heros (like the gladiators in rome) to distract from real problems

I agree with this, which is why Chris' question about making it legal is relevant.  The problem is as you state, not just for governments that are pushing for recognition in international competition, but also for commercial sports.  Baseball ignored the rampant use of amphetamines for decades, because amphetamines helped ballplayers deal with the long grind of a typical season.  I believe that baseball (and other pro sports) ignore PED use, particularly anything that helps recovery and recuperation, because it keeps their elite athletes on the field.  If fewer people care about a team when Player X is not playing, then ownership will do whatever it can to make sure that Player X does not miss any time.

One of the things that upsets me most is watching sports reporters and columnists sit on their high horses and condemn players for using PEDs, and for disgracing their sports, and so on.  Yet it's nearly impossible for these people, who cover sports day in and day out and have access to some of the remotest corners of sports clubhouses, to not be aware that this was going on.  So they are part of the problem, yet they want to have it both ways- they looked away and helped cover it while it was going on, but now they want to act as moral police and wag their fingers at people.  It's sickening.

[chris10000]

i think instead of drugtesting they should make a health testing.

now atlethes can be seriously ill, but if they pass the drug test , all is ok.
with healthtesting they would take products which doesnt make any sígnificant problems.

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