[cpbell0033944]

I've heard of her before, but I have never seen photos of her before, so these are a real treat, thanks for them.  I'm very impressed by what I see – very attractive and wonderful musculature. 8)

[cpbell0033944]

Looks to me like Cassie has been working out . . .  8)

Source: Wonder Girl by Jean Sinclair 07×11 Art

I'd say you were right. 8) 😉

[cpbell0033944]

Looks like she means business . . . 8)

Source: SKRASH! Drawings: Red Sonja by Luis XIII

I'm not standing in her way. 😮 ;D
Won't she get cold in that snow, though? ::)

[cpbell0033944]

I have mixed feelings.

On one hand I do enjoy incredible levels of muscle mass and density,

But on the other hand I also enjoy the female form, sexy breasts, and feminine faces, feminine shape.

If the IFBB required women to turn into massive She-Hulks, then all women would have to get that huge.  Getting that large means sacrificing the other qualities of the female form that I enjoy.

Colette Guimond and Renne Tonney are good examples of so called "women" who have lost almost everything that is feminine.  Colette has a clitoris that dangles like a penis and pecs that look like a man's chest.

If the IFBB standard becamse such that women need to become as huge as them, well that may actually be enough to push me away; for me that's just too extreme.

Compared to the likes of Debi Lasweski, Cindy Phillips, Gina Davis, Britt Miller, Valentina Chepiga, Yaxeni Oriquen who are just simply gorgeous women with the right amounts of muscle, breast size, and female shape.  So though, I'm all for letting women grow as big as they want, I don't want that maximum size to be the standard that they get judged on.  Otherwise the girls I just listed would be forced to get bigger until they could be considered competitors, and I just don't think that would be very attractive.

A very thought-provoking post.  You're bolder than I am in naming people specifically as having been affected! 😮
I have nothing against size as a concept.  Like you, my problem with the current state of affairs comes when the race for size and low, low bodyfat levels impinges on other aspects of the overall package.  I do try to remove my sexuality from this sort of discussion, but I did once research what the top men looked like and, after having a lie-down in a darkened room I decided that I found them very aesthetically disturbing and I realised why you don't hear women saying "You can keep Brad Pitt, Ronnie Coleman's the guy for me."  The only word that springs to mind is monsters, I'm afraid.

Am I really missing the point, or is BBing, unlike an objective test of sporting talent or athletic ability, actually the pursuit of an aesthetically-pleasing muscular form?  I can't reconcile that with the "size above all" mentality that appears to prevail.  To my mind, the men look almost deformed and many of the top women show disturbing levels of virilisation.  Again, it's not easy to keep that old chestnut of sexual atractiveness from the equation, but I can't see how someone who is almost to the stage of being biochemically transgendered is an ideal.  Neither the men nor women are ideal physical specimens, IMO, nor are they good role-models.  Bringing my sexual feelings back into the discussion, I cannot feel turned-on when a woman speaks with a gravelly voice deeper than my own, nor where her face has a disquiteting maleness about it, and certainly the sight of a competitor (whose identity I shall withold) whom I accidentally viewed recently with the aforementioned organ dangling and looking for all the world like a not-so-small penis is NOT something I enjoy.

I don't claim to know the answers, but I feel something has to be done.  One only has to view the comments in response to YouTube material of some top IFBB Pro women to see that people find such virilsation unpleasant.  Of course there are the cavemen who object to any material of any female with any level of musculature, but they are, fortunately, in the minority.  Many videos of Figure competitors and FBBers such as Johanna Dejager have almost totally positive comments.  Te difference is obvious; the IFBB contest-winner is simply not attractive in either a sexual or aesthetic way, whereas the Natural or unvirilised competitor almost always is.

[cpbell0033944]

Lingster – if you truly believe that Hagee isn't too bad then you either haven't listened to his statements or are clinically insane.  Every time that guy opens his mouth publically, hate spews forth.  I would also suggest that you try something for me; instead of finding links that disparage Obama, (a pointless activity given that you have said you won't vote for him anyway) how's about doing a little research on Rod Parsley (McCain's equivalent of Wright).

These should help:

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

Look! even right-wing lunatics "Fair and Balanced" Fox News are covering it!  So it's not just a left-wing thing after all – who'd have thunk?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/03/mccains-pastors-same-questions-different-answers/

Just because I can't resist, I'll go for the no more left-wing than Fox News is right-wing dreadful, anti-American, world-ending Commie source that is The Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-sedaei/deafening-silence-on-mcca_b_100832.html

[cpbell0033944]

And cpbell0033944…F1 racing needs to do something to make the racing less boring, sure they're the most high-tech cars in the world, but it kills me that many of the races are not even close…i tend to only enjoy the rain soaked events at this point…peace

Oh, don't even go there – it's a source of great embarrassment to me.  Today's GP in Turkey was a good'un because the circuit promotes overtaking.  Changes have been made already to put the drivers back in full command of the cars this year by mandating a standard electronic control unit that doesn't have either traction control or engine braking assistance.  This has brought-back the pleasing sight of cars squirming under acceleration and the on-car cameras show the drivers correcting the car with the steering wheels more than of recent times.  Next year (at long last) the aero regulations are being overhauled to enable cars to run close to each other through the corners and therefore increase overtaking.  They're also bringing-back proper (i.e. slick) tyres instead of those stupid grooved things.

[cpbell0033944]

Nice colourisation of a great image by Gettar. 😉

[cpbell0033944]

I already voted for McCain in my state's primary election and had to use my left hand to force my right hand to push the button. 

But this '57 states' thing is even worse than Dan Quayle's 'potatoe' moment.

I presume your two-handed comment is because McCain isn't conservative enough for your taste?
That, I think is the nub of the one thing that amazes me most about our differing political systems – many of you on the conservative side are bemoaning the fact that the GOP has put-up a lefttie candidate.  In the UK, I'm convinced that McCain would be viewed as the most right-of-centre leader of any mainstream party since Thatcher.

Personally, I cannot see how anyone finds him not sufficiently right-of-centre when he:

a) fails to agree that the US cannot stay in Iraq on an open-ended basis,

and

b) fails to distance himself at all (not that Obama exactly severed all links from Wright) from both Hagee and Parsley.  Whether one approves of homosexuality or Catholicism, what Hagee said was surely unforgiveable.

BTW, my confidence in Obama has been dented greatly by the topic of this thread and the Wright affair.  I was a big fan of his.  Now…not so sure.  Trouble is, Clinton's manipulative, and McCain to me is unbearable, so Obama ends-up being the best of a bad bunch.

If you're wondering, from what I heard of the early candidates, my favourite was Edwards, with Paul a dark horse if I could only be sure that the allegations of prior racism were false.

Still, it's none of my business – except that my country is so shackled to yours that, IMO the identity of your President affects me more than the identity of our Prime Minister does you.

[cpbell0033944]

Indeed.  Why are her hands bound, might I ask?

[cpbell0033944]

He's doing his own fair share of gaffing his way into losing this election, most of all by ignoring the conservative core that would come out in droves to elect him, and instead is pandering to left-wing groups like La Raza (The Race) in the foolish belief he can win over people who will never vote for him anyway.

I blame his campaign manager, rather then McCain for this current state of affairs – the same sort of moron that sank Rudy Giuliani's bid.

Trouble is, I can't see that he appeals to liberals either.

Oh, and, by the way, didn't Giuliani sink Giuliani's capaign by only discussing one thing? 😉

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