[stmercy2020]

I hated it, Pete.

<checks door to see if muscular maidens are on their way down the street…>
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LIAR!!!!

😉 ;D

[stmercy2020]

Happy birthday, Zoloat!  Many happy returns!

[stmercy2020]

Still quite nice.  And, hell, who needs shirts and clothes, anyway, when you're stacked like that?  (Just teasing the Ritz, of course- hopefully she won't hunt me down and bury my scrawny @$$ in buttery crackers… ;))

[stmercy2020]

Chapter 28 of Power and Fury…

http://www.thevalkyrie.com/stories/1misc24/jan28.htm

[stmercy2020]

Gah!  I hate it when this happens.

Without another word, he turned and started walking away.  Tris hook her head.  Grabbing her hood and her pistols, Tris set off down towards the palace and her target.

should read

Without another word, he turned and started walking away.  Tris shook her head.  Grabbing her hood and her pistols, Tris set off down towards the palace and her target.

stoopid editing process.  derned no-modifying posts.  frig.

[stmercy2020]

Of course, if WW had a FMG scene where she goes from Diana Prince to Wonder Woman, that'd be even cooler…

Now that's an interesting idea- how would it differ from a Jen Walters/She-hulk TF, tho'?  Or, perhaps a better question would be if it would differ…

[stmercy2020]

The Amazonia is spreading… everyone be ready, only YOU can stop the contamination!

What was that?  Only YOU can spread the contamination?  I'm on it, sir!

[stmercy2020]

You are of course correct that we have no conclusive evidence.  What we do have is reasonable suspicion based on musculature far in excess of what is commonly seen on natural female athletes along with admittedly circumstantial factors such as deepening voice and acne into her mid 20s, neither of which are unheard-of.  The moodiness referred to earlier is admittedly  also of uncertain origin.  If you look at this as a probability, each included factor reduces the level of probability to some degree.  If we posit that 20 percent of women engaged in natural bodybuilding experience deepening voice in adulthood naturally, that 40% of natural bodybuilding women have acne into their mid 20s, and that 90 percent of them experience moodiness or depression while dieting in advance of a contest we get .4x.2x.9=.072 or 7.2% that have all three, assuming that each of these variables is independent.  Naturally, we can play with those numbers until we have carpal tunnel syndrome, but my point is that for all these variables to come together in one person is improbable.    7.2 percent is not insignificant, but it was heavily influenced by the 90% thrown in for fun.  If 25% of bodybuilding women had moodiness,  2% of this population would have all 3.  But I have no real statistics here.  Also, I will admit that my statistical skills are rusty and limited at best. What I see in your position is a triumph of hope over experience. I see people using whatever performance enhancement they can when they are in competition, especially if they suspect others of doing the same thing. You may see my view as pessimistic.  We aren't going to really get anywhere here, so can we call a truce?  I still think we both like to look at pictures of Cindy.

No argument there.  I'll agree to your truce if you'll promise to stop trying to burst my dreamy soap bubble of fantasy with the pin-prick of reality… ;D

Seriously, I understand that circumstantial evidence does mount up and can carry nearly the same weight as conclusive evidence, but my courses in criminal justice have taught me to always be skeptical.  After all, there are three kinds of lies- lies, damn lies, and statistics!

Well, adding the word realistic puts an interesting spin on things.  What is realistic, after all?  Do we count in or out the possibility of politicians posturing for votes and feigning moral outrage to decry performance enhancing substances?  If we count that in, do we then think that it is realistic to imagine politicians perceiving enough support to legally mandate testing in professional sports as they have in many communities for high school sports?  Is it likely that the voting public would support such testing? 
On other levels, I think it is quite unlikely that professional sport will do anything that it sees as against its commercial interests unless it feels compelled to do so.  Sport is a spectacle.  More spectacle=> more interest=> more ticket sales.  Record setting performance is a way to increase how spectacular a game is.  Other than political means, I can only see some sort of ethical convergence driving a move toward fully drug tested sports.  I can imagine some basic agreement that sport is a demonstration of what people can do, not what science can do, but it requires a population of educated, concerned people.  In the US at least, I don't see that as realistic in the near future.  Of course, drugs may be on their way out anyhow.  Gene manipulation is perhaps not too far down the road, and that might be impossible to detect.

I think it might be more interesting to discuss what it means to be human and separately to decide if the desire to improve oneself by any means available is necessarily a bad thing.
Bo.[/quote]

Heh.  Government meddling in what can only be described as a fringe sport?  Somehow, I think not.  Your other question is intriguing, though.  I think there are some situations in which it would be morally and ethically wrong to try to improve yourself "by any means available"- specifically, if those means cause you to harm or become a danger to others.  Becoming a danger to yourself shouldn't be considered criminal, merely stupid.

[stmercy2020]

That's some nice work, man- great fun!  I like how the doctor's perspective is so different from Meagan's…

[stmercy2020]

Stmercy,  OK fair enough, this isn't a controlled experiment.  It doesn't seem likely though that a young woman in a matter of a few years (2003) goes from cheerleader fit to professional bodybuilder just by eating her wheaties and exercising seriously.  OK, perhaps she is that one-in-a million girl who just happens to be really exceedingly good at getting muscular without drugs.    How likely is it that in addition to being that rare girl she is also getting a deeper voice and having apparent acne trouble, both of which as we all know are also signs of steroid use(along with mood swings btw).  I would like to believe that this beautiful girl stayed away from steroids, but I don't know that I would bet on it.  I hope that she will have good judgement and find a way to use her fame and abilities that does not have long term health consequences.

It's probably pointless to speculate on what has caused the deepening voice, as I said.  As far as acne, if you look at Cindy going all the way back to when she was a fitness model, she's always had trouble with acne.  If anything, her skin seems clearer now than it did just a couple years ago, but, again, this may mean nothing.  Mood swings can easily be attributed to steroid use, true, but they can also be attributed to stress, sleep deprivation, diet, and a host of other "natural" causes.  My point is that there is no conclusive evidence one way or the other, and I prefer to believe the best of her (and most people) until such evidence exists.

On a separate but related topic, I think both amateur and professional levels of the sports could only benefit in the public eye if there were mandatory testing for performance enhancing drugs.  The problem, of course, is money.  Sort of a vicious cycle- the sport might be more popular if drug testing were mandatory, which might make it feasible to spend the money on drug testing, but because the sport isn't generally popular or accepted, the money isn't there, so drug testing isn't fiscally possible, so the sport isn't likely to gain popularity, et. al.  I'd love to see a realistic approach to that conundrum.

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