[Yaponvezos]

Being self absorbed from having enough things to keep your attention is true and I understand that.

I also understand not being interested in Europe when it comes to its inner dealings, that's logical too. But from a business standpoint, in a globalized economy it only makes sense from Europe to be interested in the USA and vice versa. I mean why wouldn't one big market do business with another big market?

But it's quite easy to explain an average European's fascination. Show business. As for the fact that we spend so much time paying attention to the US and we still get much wrong, well, that's inevitable too and it goes both ways. There are vast cultural differences and it takes an great amount of time to comprehend them both. And by the time we do, there are new things we have to understand.

I did not really mentioned the US interfering thinking of my country or anything related to it. I'm talking theory mostly. But since you went that way, I have some comments.

Of course you did not invent our problems. At worst you might have exacerbated some  but that's about it. And yes I believe you interfered in fear of us joining the Soviet side. And yes had we joined our problems would have only gotten worse. But you 're wrong in one thing. There was no such great risk. And nope we did not really have long-term Soviet interference in Greece at that time. What we had is a centuries old friendship with Russia at a time the Soviet Union had not even be thought of. But Russia and the Soviet Union are two different things.

In the shape communism was trying to take, yes the United States were right in going up against it. I never objected to that. I never even questioned whether our participation in NATO was involuntary or not.

I won't try to mention what the US did wrong as this is not the point of this thread. My purpose is to learn more about you and, through that, maybe help you learn something about us. After all there is always something to learn. Hence I 'll only comment on the topics you bring up.

On to Cyprus. Believe me, we 're more pissed at the military junta than at you when it comes to Cyprus. If there is one thing we hold against you, is that you have yet to recognize the turkish military operations on Cyprus at that time as an invasion. It's more of an ethical matter really. Well that and that you supported the junta thinking they could keep us away from communism. The reality of things is that they were a bunch of idiots that created more problems than they solved, more so than any modern idiot that had the chance to become prime minister.

As for the Olympics, you 're seeing too much in things, I'm afraid. Yes we were disappointed to not get them in 1996 because that was the 100th anniversary of the first modern Olympics that were held in Greece. But I don't remember people holding that against you. I mean, it's not like you were picking the "winner" by yourselves. We were equally disappointed in 2000. But we don't have any problems with Australians.

In reality, interfering is not a problem by itself. What seems odd to us Europeans is the fact that you interfere even when you are not asked to, not by people, not by governments, not by anyone. Should anyone ask for your held and you think it's worth it, go with it. But why disregard what one country chooses for itself?

It's true that we are sympathetic towards Fidel Castro. But that's because we see the whole affair more like an underdog story. This might be naive, I give you that. But that's the reason an average European will claim to like Castro.

Closing, so that my purpose here is clear, the point is to learn from each other. I mean, you could make questions and I could make questions. There are differences and there will be differences. We live under different circumstances, he bear different legacies and it's only natural to be different. But we can always try to understand.

So isn't there any serious question you always to wanted to ask about an average European and never had the chance? I'm not saying I know every answer but why not try it out? I try to do the same thing and I assure you, I only mean well.

[Yaponvezos]

Lingster, I'm impressed you actually took the time to look up on some things about Greece. Usually, no one really does. But living our problematic economy from the inside, I can tell you with the utmost certainty, the root of our problem has nothing to do whatsoever with socialism. There are two far bigger problems: corruption in the public sector and tax evasion. Actually the former is what led to the latter.

So we 're locked in a vicious circle for various reasons. In the end, what matters for our economy is that the tax evasion equals the country's budget. So eliminating tax evasion would automatically double the government's budget. Plus we 're still paying off loans from the time of the greek revolution…something like 185 years ago (some of which were payed off just a few years ago). Loooooooooong story.

Nevertheless, I really find this discussion interesting. Being a foreigner, the whole subject, from the american point of view, is totally new to me.

[Yaponvezos]

It's not about common sense – it's about restraining the wicked.

Well I beg to differ. In my experience wickedness has more ties with idiocy and other problems. Wickedness seems to be more of an expression of a bunch of problems and not the cause of them.

yes, Yaponvezos, we (USA) have a communist party. And the Democrats favora very socialist agenda. They are always talking about "redistribution" of wealth, and socialized health care.

Didn't know that, thanks for clearing it up.

If you ask a Canadian about thier health care, they will tell you how bad it is. They tell the doctors how many times they can perform any specific operation. If you need that operation, but they've done all they are allowed to do, you can't have it, even if you can afford to pay for it. That's why many Canadians go to the USA to get treatment.

Didn't know that either.

How many people have actually seen the movie anyway?  I saw some clips and there are some valid points Moore brought up which spoke to both Democrats AND Republicans.  It became less about whose political party you're with and more about society as a whole.

Unlike his previous films, this one is not geared towards being politically correct or choosing a side, it's more about showing what some people have to go through in order to get healthcare in the US.  I'm always of the opinion that you should watch the movie first before jumping to conclusions, and from the clips I saw it was actually pretty decent and not choosing a side.

I'm not sure if you 're referring to me but just in case, I don't feel I've jumped to any conclusions regarding the movie in question as I've yet to express any opinion about it. But if you were saying that in general, well…forget I ever typed the last lines.

[Yaponvezos]

Well I haven't watched the movie in question so I'm not in a position to form an opinion. Out of curiosity though, I'll get my hands on it and see what comes out of that.

Going on with socialism, yes it can be a slippery slope. But then a lot of things can in the presence and control of the wrong people. I'm not sure I can blame a theory. I feel it only makes sense to blame people and the choices they make.

Then again, you people might be on the edge with socialism/socialists etc. since (if I got that right) there is no american communist party so a communist has no other way to pursuit his/her agenda in, shall we say, concealment.

Where I live we have a communist party that enjoys the support of a small part of the population. So small in fact that all they are left with is the ability to whine publicly. At least there is no doubt about who is and who isn't a communist. We don't worry though, mainly because a communistic economy is suicide these days and the communist party has no chance to get into a position of power for that particular reason.

But oh I'm wandering here. It's just that I find all this "right wing", "left wing" etc. system ridiculous in so many ways. The world would be a much better place had we a bit more of a common sense.

[Yaponvezos]

Pardon my ignorance but what gives for such polarity of opinion when it comes to Michael Moore? I'm not American so it's quite difficult to understand such things, not knowing much about the political system and what have you of the USA.

But regardless of all that, why has one system have to be better? I think that what should matter is how suited is each system for the economy it's used on.

I have one other thing to ask though. How come and every time the word "socialism" is brought up, it immediately gets associated with communism?

Where I come from, socialism is just one of three major schools of democratic thought that, according the the circumstances, may or may not express itself radically. I might not be all that much for it at times but I think it's better to have around than not have it at all. Without it or without any conflicting theories there would be no friction and I strongly believe that friction leads to progress.

[Yaponvezos]

Ooh yeah! And I'm Greek so I could be biased. Thank God I'm not!

Nursel Gurler has been one of my favourites for YEARS!

[Yaponvezos]

I bet we all love his mom right bout now.  😛

[Yaponvezos]

Now that is awesome alright. That's about the single greatest thing missing from my Fireplace Showcase HD DVD.  ;D

[Yaponvezos]

Oh, come on. War is appropriate but putting a woman's body on a freaking plane can be inappropriate? Plus, don't women soldiers/pilots have more important things to worry about than being offended by a giant sticker? I mean…like…NOT GETTING KILLED?!

[Yaponvezos]

I'm sooooooo buying this game.

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