[yaracyrrah80]

I'm no judge, but I think I do understand why Johanna placed behind Cheryl Faust: Faust seems better proportioned to me, albeit in some ineffable way I can't describe.  (Except maybe to say that Johanna's legs are a bit small compared to her upper body.)  I actually think I disagree with my own instinct and would myself have put Johanna first, but it's a close call.  On the other hand, though Kim Ferrell looks great, placing her above Johanna makes no sense to me at all.

Just another two cents to add to the pot.

[greyfox]

I think it's a conspiracy against the athlete that proves that it's possible without steroids.  It has to be.  How else did they place her third when her physique was clearly better than at least one of the others?

Jd is not natural, she takes steriods. Claiming to be "natural" is laughable. Now, i am not anti-steriods; in fact I say juice up! It looks amazing, but lets be serious here.  It is impossible for a woman of JD's muscle mass and detial to be attained without the aid of roids, hgh, insulin or a combo of all three.

Let me say this straight out: No althete in competitive BB'ing, figure, or fitness is natural. There are "natural" BB'ing contests for a reason…

[TC2]

What evidence do you have that she's not natural asides from her muscle mass?  She's still a tiny package, and from what I've seen small girls can sometimes pack a huge amount of mass.

So what proof do you have that Johanna is using steroids when her whole motto is to build naturally?  You need to back it up.

[greyfox]

It's a biological imposibiliy, women produces about 1/13th the amount of testosterone that males produce.  A women with amazing genetics could work out for her entire life with a perfect diet and still not be able to compete at a pro/ national lvl. BB contest.  They simply cannot naturally produce enough test. to grow muscles of any signifigant size; let alone JD's development.

By no means do I mean to belittle anyone here, but the fact that we are even having this conversation really shows that some of you don't know much (or are in denial) about the "dark side" of bodybuilding.

As I said in my previous post, steroids arn't evil, but in the world of competitive BB'ing there not an advantage, there simply a given.

*Again, they have acctual natural bodybuilding contests for a reason; that reason is that men and women who don't take steriods cant compete with those who do (on the national or pro stage). Why else do you think they would have them?!?!?

If you dont believe me, and I am sure many of you don't, I challenge any of you to take a picture of JD to bodybuilding.com, musculardevelopment.com, ironmagazine.com, or any other reptuable body building site and ask the resident "guru" over there if he/she thinks if JD is natural (meaning takeing zero performance ehancing drugs like roids, hgh, or insulin).

[TC2]

Biologically impossible?  You know what I used to think was biologically impossible?  A 14 year old girl being able to lift over 400 lbs.  A 7 year old kid having a ripped six pack of abs.

Yet each of those I just listed are real and have happened in a natural way.

I am no stranger to steroids being used in body building, there are tons of popular FBB's who I think have used steroids.  I'm not going to name names of the beloved ones because I have no evidence of it.  But I can name the most obvious ones like, Maria Calo and Nicole Bass.  Renne Tonney also springs to mind.

Johanna however, has no tell tale signs of steroid side effects such as manly voice, square jaw, and acne.  I'm sure she uses supplements and the like, but she's pretty much as big as Pauline Nordin and I'm pretty sure Pauline isn't a steroid abuser either.

Also, photos tends to make bodybuilders look bigger.  A good example of this was Siene Silva from American Gladiators.  In the photos by herself, she looked enormous, huge even.  Yet when you put her on a side by side comparison to Hulk Hogan it became quite obvious that she was as tiny as a fairy.

So unless you've met Johanna in person or have evidence that she's abused steroids, even though she shows none of the side effects, I don't think your targeting of JD is valid.

If you said Maria Calo or someone else, then you might be on to something, but Johanna?  I don't think so.

[jdfan]

Good points Collector.

…photos tends to make bodybuilders look bigger.  A good example of this was Siene Silva from American Gladiators.  In the photos by herself, she looked enormous, huge even.  Yet when you put her on a side by side comparison to Hulk Hogan it became quite obvious that she was as tiny as a fairy….

This photo illustrates your point quite well:

These girls are small but perfectly formed. Not so hard to believe this could be achieved by natural training and nutrition. Throw in J's sweet feminine voice, perfect skin, good hair and pretty face – and I'm a believer!

[cpbell0033944]

It's a biological imposibiliy, women produces about 1/13th the amount of testosterone that males produce.  A women with amazing genetics could work out for her entire life with a perfect diet and still not be able to compete at a pro/ national lvl. BB contest.  They simply cannot naturally produce enough test. to grow muscles of any signifigant size; let alone JD's development.

By no means do I mean to belittle anyone here, but the fact that we are even having this conversation really shows that some of you don't know much (or are in denial) about the "dark side" of bodybuilding.

As I said in my previous post, steroids arn't evil, but in the world of competitive BB'ing there not an advantage, there simply a given.

*Again, they have acctual natural bodybuilding contests for a reason; that reason is that men and women who don't take steriods cant compete with those who do (on the national or pro stage). Why else do you think they would have them?!?!?

If you dont believe me, and I am sure many of you don't, I challenge any of you to take a picture of JD to bodybuilding.com, musculardevelopment.com, ironmagazine.com, or any other reptuable body building site and ask the resident "guru" over there if he/she thinks if JD is natural (meaning takeing zero performance ehancing drugs like roids, hgh, or insulin).

I'm not in any form of denial about steroid use.  If you'd like, I'll message you with the names of FBBers who I consider to have gone too far in their use.  I know the signs, and I can assure you that people her like AlexG will tell you that I sometimes obsess about my favourites showing those signs.  Like The_Collector, I see no evidence whatsoever that Jo is using.  Now, she may be lying.  Then again, so might I.  For all anyone here knows, I might be a female ballerina, or a Space Shuttle crew member, or a brain surgeon.  The fact is, though, that I'm neither of those, and that any speculation that I might be is just that; speculation with no supporting evidence.  Just the same as you speculating about Johanna. 

[00tree]

By no means do I mean to belittle anyone here, but the fact that we are even having this conversation really shows that some of you don't know much (or are in denial) about the "dark side" of bodybuilding.

I'm offended. Weather or not your are trying to call the members of this board ignorant thats how it's coming off.  >:(

And from what your saying there can not be any truely exceptional female who possesses physiology such as Jennifer Abrams, Rhonda Dethlefs, and Carman Unger who all pride themselves on being drug free are all lying. Not everyone's chemical makeup is the same so I can beleive that there are some women in the sport who can build a lovely physique without drugs. I however am in no way ignorent to the fact that these women are at a very heavy(and I do stress the words very heavy) disadvantage to the girls that juice.

If your going to make statements such as the ones you need to back it up with sonething more than a challenge that is based off other people's opinions and be more carefull in your criticism of other peoples level of knowledge on the matter before they even state them. It's not a big secret that the people that frequent boards like these are obsessed with the primary subject of the board and will study it with great passion. So to say that "some of you don't know much (or are in denial) about the "dark side" of bodybuilding" is a lot like telling a mechanic that he doesn't know much about cars.  >:(

[cpbell0033944]

I'm offended. Weather or not your are trying to call the members of this board ignorant thats how it's coming off.  >:(

And from what your saying there can not be any truely exceptional female who possesses physiology such as Jennifer Abrams, Rhonda Dethlefs, and Carman Unger who all pride themselves on being drug free are all lying. Not everyone's chemical makeup is the same so I can beleive that there are some women in the sport who can build a lovely physique without drugs. I however am in no way ignorent to the fact that these women are at a very heavy(and I do stress the words very heavy) disadvantage to the girls that juice.

If your going to make statements such as the ones you need to back it up with sonething more than a challenge that is based off other people's opinions and be more carefull in your criticism of other peoples level of knowledge on the matter before they even state them. It's not a big secret that the people that frequent boards like these are obsessed with the primary subject of the board and will study it with great passion. So to say that "some of you don't know much (or are in denial) about the "dark side" of bodybuilding" is a lot like telling a mechanic that he doesn't know much about cars.  >:(

Precisely.  Back-up your accusation, greyfox. >:(

[greyfox]

Well I knew that comment will spark some fireworks here =), so I'll try and respond to each of you the best I can.

Biologically impossible?  You know what I used to think was biologically impossible?  A 14 year old girl being able to lift over 400 lbs.  A 7 year old kid having a ripped six pack of abs.

Yet each of those I just listed are real and have happened in a natural way.

I am no stranger to steroids being used in body building, there are tons of popular FBB's who I think have used steroids.  I'm not going to name names of the beloved ones because I have no evidence of it.  But I can name the most obvious ones like, Maria Calo and Nicole Bass.  Renne Tonney also springs to mind.

Johanna however, has no tell tale signs of steroid side effects such as manly voice, square jaw, and acne.  I'm sure she uses supplements and the like, but she's pretty much as big as Pauline Nordin and I'm pretty sure Pauline isn't a steroid abuser either.

Also, photos tends to make bodybuilders look bigger.  A good example of this was Siene Silva from American Gladiators.  In the photos by herself, she looked enormous, huge even.  Yet when you put her on a side by side comparison to Hulk Hogan it became quite obvious that she was as tiny as a fairy.

So unless you've met Johanna in person or have evidence that she's abused steroids, even though she shows none of the side effects, I don't think your targeting of JD is valid.

If you said Maria Calo or someone else, then you might be on to something, but Johanna?  I don't think so.

For the first part of your comment (the strength of a 14 y.o girl), I am speaking in terms of muscle size; I am not qualified to answer anything on feats of strength.

(6 pack abs of 7 year old girl), I assume your refering to gymnasts; with this group of incredibly gifted youngsters they are doing massive amounts of cardio based activity, ab work (strengthen core), and have impeccable diets. In combonation with relativly low body fats to begin with, geting a 6 pac of abs is very attainable considering how much work they put on. Again, no muscle size here. (and yes, I am well aware that gymnasts have defined, well built, muscular frames but they are not on a pro or national Fbb level)

(steroid signs of JD), steroid "tells" like acne or jaw distortions as you refered to are purley on a case to case basis. Another words a person can juice there entire life and not experience a single sign of steroid abuse because of genetic disposition to the drug or in some cases becuase of prevention substances used to fight the side effects (yes, I am aware that some side effects are not "reversable" or "fightable/ hideable"). For example, take someone like Kevin Leverone, this man at one time was a massive freak of muscle, and from all acounts (pics, videos, and personal stories from metting the man) I nor anyone that I have ever encountered has ever saw any tell tale signs of steroid use besides his immense frame.

(photo deception), yes it is very true that size is simply an illusion created on stage for the purposes of faceing fellow competitors. Agreed

(met Jd/ evidence), No I have never met JD, a local gym rat like me is not worthy of meeting a godis like her. As i explained earlier, just because she has no visible side effects, does not mean that she dosent take roids, hgh, or insulin; it merly means that she responds amazing well to the drugs. And I can assure you that I am in no way "targeting" JD because i have nothing but great respect for each and every Fbb'er. Even if say, a girl in my local gym, took roids, hgh, and insulin; that girl will proboblly never be able to compete on the nation stage because of genetic limitations, balance issues, or lack of reponse to the substacnes (to compete at THAT level).

[Author]

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