[robclassact]

I think its more of a lurker problem, though I’m hardly one to talk since I have only recently cracked out of my lurker shell. Part of it is realizing that many more people see your stuff than are willing to make comments. I’ve been visiting SheGrew! (and MysticCrunk’s forum) for a while now but only in the last month have I really started posting. Come on guys, lets give this guy some encouragement!

. . . but seriously, the three-page thread on your drawings of Rouge is one of the longest on this forum if not the longest. Dude, honestly.

[Matthew Lim]

I appreciate all the positive motivation, and I’ll just make my point to the Journal post. You have to consider that although it’s a three page thread, it’s also a thread that consists of three drawings with one that’s been updated a few times. I think that this is the only factor that contributes to the large volume of responses on this thread. And on top of that, several people posted more than once. 20 people have posted on this tread, which is a number I really appreciate. But the reply to views ratio is what gets to me the most. It’s roughly a 1% reply to views ratio. Rob really hit it on the spot, it’s really a lurker thing. But as an artist seeking feedback, I have to assume the worst out of this lack of response. If a greater percentage of people started posting, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

[AlexG]

Had to take a look and see what all the fuss was about . . . 8)

😯 (oh my – whoa!) – sunglasses go a-sailing away!

Very buffed-looking tough stuff variation on the Rogue-Juggernaut theme. Can’t says as I’ve been much of an X-Men fan for more then several years now, but I do remember when (Annual #7) she temp-took She-Hulk’s powers and grew in size – that it caused her outfit to split up at the seams goes without saying. Would be interesting to see that happen again, but this time with Paul Pelletier’s version of her empowered physique.

“I like a good story well told. That is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.”
~ Mark Twain / Samuel Clemens (1907)

[Prophet Tenebrae]

This is why you should never have expectations from people… for some people, looking at your work and not saying something negative is about as great a compliment as they’ll ever stretch to.

You just need to accept that most people on the internet are lazy, ungrateful sponges that do not treat your work as a privelege but their god given right and the only time they’ll ever say anything about it is when they’re demanding that you give them more. Once you realise that they’re sub-human scum, then the fact that they don’t say anything about your work, you won’t mind as much.

The people that take the time to praise your work are worth infinitely more than people that just take and take and never give back.

So I suppose my advice is – don’t be discouraged by the leeching masses, your art is great and greatly appreciated and ultimately you shouldn’t be doing art primairily to please others but to please yourself – then everyone that enjoys your work after you is a bonus.

[JimmyDimples]

Hey, I can relate to the lack of responses thing. I know you should be confident in your own abilities, with audience response or not. But if a piece of creativity is on the web, and it gets no views… does it really exist? Sorta like if a deaf muscle girl knocks down a tree, and there’s no one else to hear it… does it make a sound?

Oh, and to keep it on topic… nice pics, KTM. 🙂

[Anonymous]

KissTheManiac, if you’re complaining about not getting enough unique views and comments, you’re not an "aritst seeking feedback," you’re a guy desperate for approval. Stop relying on others. Why not look at your OWN art and judge for YOURSELF if it needs to be fixed? If no one’s looking at it, then do it yourself.

And you know what, everyone else? We’re just playing into it. Sure, it’s not exactly compliments we’re giving, but everyone keeps telling him the same things to make him feel better, that he should just do what he wants, realize that he should stop relying on others, etc., etc.. It’s been said so many times that we should stop saying it because if he doesn’t get it now, it’s because he doesn’t want to.

[TC2]

Let me just post here again as a person who has gone through this phase.

Consider this, having at least ONE reply is a damn good start, you’ve gotten at least 3 pages which is more than anyone can ask for.

Trust me, I know what it’s like to get like 10,000 views and only two replies. But I’ve learned that it’s just people like me who really get a kick out of it yet can’t manage to find the words to really lay in the thanks. Others, in fact a good portion of the population is embarrassed and extremely shy of posting. They fear that their real identity will come out and then everyone will know their secret, I know that’s what I was thinking for a while, still do in the back of my head.

You have to learn to interpret views as posts, you have to say to yourself "Damn look at all those views! They must REALLY love my work!"

I mean hell if I based my work off of how many replies I got and by the amount of replies determined if I should continue, well I would have quit six years ago.

I mean hell my yahoo group has like 4000+ people and it’s a ghost town when it comes to posting. But that’s all right, I know when the next big thing hits they are going to come out of the wood work. So don’t be too disappointed, just accept the amount of views and replies you have now and keep on pushing through.

P.S.

I think Rogue’s skin tone look a bit too dark. 😀

[Matthew Lim]

KissTheManiac, if you’re complaining about not getting enough unique views and comments, you’re not an "aritst seeking feedback," you’re a guy desperate for approval. Stop relying on others. Why not look at your OWN art and judge for YOURSELF if it needs to be fixed? If no one’s looking at it, then do it yourself.

I bring it up not for the sake of approval. I feel that people’s opinions are much more valuble. If I was to do this thing for myself I wouldn’t give a crap about other people’s opinions and I’d post stuff that appeal to my tastes and potentially piss other people off. As important critiquing my own work is, another person’s critique is 10 times more valuble, especially in these cases. I want to appeal to as many tastes as I can on this forum. As much as everyone believes that I might be one of She Grew’s headliners, there’s still a million and one things I could fix. But like robclassact outlined, lurkers will be lurkers and they won’t come out of their shell until they want to. The lurker problem is something I really can’t change, but it sometimes does feel great when you coax a lurker into making their first post. All I can really say is, if you have something you feel is wrong with the image, don’t be afraid to bring it to the artist’s attention. I can’t really speak for hardened veterans like DCM, Wreck or 4-Frame, but for me, finding what I can do to please another fan of FMG, it motivates me even more to keep this thing up. As much as you’d think we artists enjoy all the attention and approval, we’d enjoy knowing what we can improve on a million times more. That’s what really motivates me into providing more for these forums. To tell you the truth it actually gets boring to hear "wow, thats great!!!", "I LOVE IT!!!", "Awsome work!!!" over and over again.

P.S.

It actually was done on purpose for three reasons.

– I "eyedropped" a screencap of rouge and the color of her skin is practically next to white.

– I wanted the glow of the wires on her face to stand out a little more.

– It was colored that way to contrast with the other images, if and when the other images are colored you’ll see exactly why it was colored darker. (<– this comment is going to be the ultimate cliffhanger on the forums 😈 )

[Anonymous]

If I was to do this thing for myself I wouldn’t give a crap about other people’s opinions and I’d post stuff that appeal to my tastes and potentially piss other people off.

Then why ARE you drawing if not for yourself? If you aren’t drawing for yourself, then who are you drawing for and why?

As important critiquing my own work is, another person’s critique is 10 times more valuble, especially in these cases.

Then ask for constructive criticism like I suggested in your dA journal. In your journal, you said “I hardly get any feedback or praise for them” and “It’s enough of a grace that I’m doing this without any sort of payment back, so a little encouragment to continue wouldn’t hurt.” That makes me believe that you care more about praise than anything, because not only did you mention it specifically, but you go on to say that you’re doing us all a favor by not asking for payment, and want to be encouraged to continue. Those don’t sound like the words of a guy looking for constructive criticism.

People are usually very open to giving constructive crit, so instead of just uploading a picture, ASK people specifically to give you constructive crit. Post a thread with the title “New Picture, Can I Get Some Constructive Criticism?” Until people start commenting on it, you’re going to have to judge it for yourself, no matter how much you think your own opinion lacks value.

Also, I did give you constructive criticism on both the individual drawings in your gallery as well as all of them as a whole. Did you read these? You haven’t responded to them. Maybe you don’t read dA as much as here. Here’s the critique for all of your pictures:

“I wanted to critique on all three pictures, so I’ll do it here because it’s a critique about all of them. Change your poses. Rogue’s just standing there, Jade is also standing but holding something, and Queenie there is standing and flexing. They’re not really doing anything, and all the poses are essentially the same. They’re all in the 3/4 view, and except for Rogue, they’re all flexing with the same arm, looking towards the same side of the paper, with their other arm on their hip. Not very exciting. The outfits are pretty similar, too. All wearing shorts with a stomach-baring top, and two of the three have large boots on. They aren’t even funny or creative outfits…you expect a drawing of a muscular person to be baring a lot of skin, and a muscular woman is almost always either portrayed naked or with a mid-driff baring top and shorts as you have here.

Maybe that’s why people aren’t jumping from the mountain-tops to exclaim your granduer: your pictures all look very, very similar. That’s one of my complaints about anime, that it all looks the same and no one tries to be original. If you had more original ideas, I think that people would have way more to say. Look at my stuff. I suck, and people compliment the hell outta me or insult the hell outta me…in either case, I’m not deterred.”

I want to appeal to as many tastes as I can on this forum.

Why does that mean so much to you to appeal to everyone? Why not draw for yourself? You’d enjoy it a lot more and you’d be more creative.

As much as everyone believes that I might be one of She Grew’s headliners, there’s still a million and one things I could fix.

Okay, so you DO see things you can improve. Why wait for someone to second your opinion? Just fix it now since you obviously have the power to constructive crit yourself.

The lurker problem is something I really can’t change, but it sometimes does feel great when you coax a lurker into making their first post.

There’s another “me me me” comment. YOU want to be the guy to COAX someone into making their FIRST post. Yeah, sure, I guess it would feel pretty good, but I’d never even think about it. And then if you can’t coax them, you’re going to feel bad, right? Don’t rely on people’s actions to make you feel like you’re worth something.

All I can really say is, if you have something you feel is wrong with the image, don’t be afraid to bring it to the artist’s attention.

I do and did…and did so to the other two pics in your gallery.

but for me, finding what I can do to please another fan of FMG, it motivates me even more to keep this thing up.

So you’re just doing this to make others happy? You’re a slave for them? That’s no fun.

As much as you’d think we artists enjoy all the attention and approval, we’d enjoy knowing what we can improve on a million times more.

With your journal entry, you seemed to stress approval more than anything. You said that the praise comments get boring. You’re right, they do, but unless you ask specifically for criticism, people usually don’t pay attention. Sometimes, people will see things wrong with a picture, but then they say “Well, maybe he’s starting out, I won’t discourage him by telling him what’s wrong with the picture” and they just say “looks good!” Some people take constructive crti offensively, so others are deterred from responding because they don’t want someone freaking out and telling them to go to hell. Some people say “Oh, this looks like a quick sketch, I won’t crit on it because it’s just a quickie sketch and they’re probably better when they put time into it” and then they comment on how nice it is for a sketch. This is why you have to be very specific. Let people know you want criticism. dA even has a feature allowing you to tell people you want them to critique your piece.

When I saw your journal topic, I thought “Oh, he just hit a rut, I’ll tell him we all suffer from a lack of motivation, yada yada yada” but then I read your journal and was surprised. You can see the negative reaction people had to it. You may not have intended this or realized it, but writing journals like that makes you sound like a little kid pouting because he isn’t getting his way and people aren’t paying attention to him. And when you say that you’re doing everyone a favor by not asking for payment, that just makes you sound arrogant. Then this little equation happens: arrogant + whiny = no sympathy from readers. Like I said, you probably didn’t intend to sound like this, and you’re probably not a whiny arrogant dude, but that’s how it comes across and I think you should know because that way you’ll understand why we’re being so critical of you.

Above all else, remember that this is the internet: there are many, many, many art sites out there. The likelihood that you will be found is small, and that you get any number of page views is something to be surprised about. There are many fine artists I’ve seen, even just on dA, that have only a shadow of my page views and sometimes they’ve been on longer than I have. How the hell did I get so many? I ask myself this all the time. And then you have people who REALLY suck, and they have TONS of page views. You can’t control who comes to your page, and if you’re finding a lack of traffic, then advertise. Sign up with a couple different forums and make sure to put your art links in your siggies. Comment on lots of pictures in people’s galleries, and if you REALLY want them to visit you, leave rude comments (this will also encourage constructive crit, as angry people will comment on all the bad parts of your picture). Go on into a chat room and advertise like crazy, but make sure to do it in a way that will make people not ignore you as a spammer (for example, instead of saying “VISIT MY GALLERY!” you should start with “Anyone in here an artist or like art?” and then who ever responds you send your link to. Or you can appeal to their “muscle women are gross” idea and say “Anyone want to see this freak’s art?” and talk about it like you found some gallery with freakishly large and ugly women). You can also get REALLY annoying and send people email if you find their email address. Or you can go to comment in other art communities like Elfwood and leave your URL there, too. And like I said, rude comments get more traffic, so you could always add do something like: “That said, let me underscore the fact that you SUCK. If you want to see REAL art, then go to my site at http://insertURL.com.” You can also join gift-art communities. That way, people HAVE to visit your page in order to draw your character or if they want to see your style.

Even after all that, you may still hit a lull. This is why the comment I gave in your journal is so important: you need to pull people in with something that they can’t find on most websites (and quite frankly your art is nice but it’s so similar to not only itself, but what I can find elsewhere). Maddox is mad as hell and comments on everything, and he has literally millions of page views because people think he’s either offensive or funny and they share it with friends and keep coming back. There are artists who draw anime, but only the ones who do it REALLY well get all the page views. I had a buddy who made Reboot comics that were actually really funny and could be enjoyed by non-Reboot fans, and he ended up getting a decent amount of page views (considering the fact that he never advertised and his updates were few and far between), fanart submitted to him, and site awards.

If this were an art class, asking your neighbors to critique your pictures would be easy…you’d just turn to them and ask their opinions. But this is the internet…it’s HUGE and full of people who don’t care about you or your pictures. To really get constructive crit, you have to first draw them in, and then make it absolutely clear that you want constructive crit. And then, to keep them coming back, linking you, and sharing you with their friends, offer them something most others won’t. If they’re FMG fans, they’re probably going to visit other FMG artists, and like I said, yours is pretty similar to other stuff I’ve seen. Give them something to look forward to, something different that’ll make them bookmark your page. And if they’re not FMG fans, they still need something interesting to keep them coming back because they won’t like muscular chicks in the first place.

[iowabeefpackers]

Wow, thats great!!!

I LOVE IT!!!

Awsome work!!!

sincerely –

mvdr

[Author]

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