[Anonymous]

:sigh: I think I see the problem here. I'm not mad. There was just a big ol' misunderstanding here.

Those aren't very constructive titles, so you'll forgive me if I conclude that your intent wasn't to engage in constructive dialogue.

I do forgive you because I understand your line of thinking, even if I personally disagree with it. I wrote those titles because I wanted them to be short and to-the-point, as well as grab people's attention. Writing "I am getting the impression that the amount of topics in this forum is a little too specific" is a lot nicer, but I was bored just writing it, so I don't know how many people would click. Of course, the shorter "Number of Topics?" would be an alternative, but I like to write my opinion in the title to get people to click. I do this because whenever someone does that, I always check the forum, but whenever it's something generic like that second example, I probably will skip over it.   

I had a lot more written, but after I figured out that this in fact was the problem, I decided to erase everything else and just get to the point. You have misread this because your perception was tainted by the title and the title alone. If you read my original comment and completely ignore the title, you will see that not only is it not nasty or rude in any way, but that this was not even directed towards you or any other admin. This was a topic made to see IF there was a problem. If only a couple people said "Yes, I see this as a problem," then I would have let this board die and that would have been that. If a bunch of people said "Yes, I see this as a problem," then a new topic would have been started saying something like "Members don't appreciate new ads" and would have been directed towards you and the other admin.

A couple things need to be said, though:
You tell me that you demand a certain amount of conduct, and remind me that I can't be obnoxious and taken seriously. But then you start talking down to me, comparing me to a student with you the principle, telling me the squeaky wheel gets replaced, saying that you are a "grown-up man with a job that doesn't involve looking after children," and telling me that you are essentially ignoring me. See a problem with consistency? You told me to offer constructive criticism, getting on me that my criticism didn't sound constructive, but then you just criticize me.

The advisory board thing. Man, a head's up would have been nice. I had absolutely no clue that I was on any kind of advisory board. Ever think that I had no interest in doing so? Asking someone's permission before setting them on an advisory board is the polite way to go about it. Heck, I didn't even know shegrew was moving. Maybe you should have used a more eye-catching topic title 😉 I've run into a couple things here (I thought shegrew was fine), one of which was something two members had brought up, that I thought were worth mentioning. In both, I'm not asking you to actually fix anything, I'm making a comment that at least one person finds this a problem, and I wanted to see if anyone else did. I really wish you didn't just get upset because of the title. Don't judge a book by the cover and all that.

Maybe it's not the title. Maybe you just don't see it as a problem. The reason I suggested that is when you said this: "I can do this because I have been a contributor in this genre for a very long time – about as long as it has existed online – and so I am a trusted middleman." It sounds like you think you have a right not to listen to people. This IS your board. You really CAN run it however you want to. But if you offer a feedback forum, please don't be offended by the feedback some people offer. As one guy said, you can't please them all.

I don't think I have done anything to make you feel anything but welcome here.

Not until I posted in your feedback forum. I haven't had a problem with you, you comment on my comments, add things to the topics I make, etc.. There has been no issue until I posted here. You tell me several times that you are practically ignoring me, that you are a grown-up man who doesn't take care of kids, etc.. Does that sound like you're making me "feel anything but welcome here"?

So, to recap:
Read the comment, not the title.
Don't insult someone when you're asking them to treat you with some respect.

If you take this as sounding too harsh, know that's not how I meant it. In fact, I have gone over and modified this several times in an attempt to take out anything that sounds rude because I don't want you to read it like an attack on you. It was just a misunderstanding. And to show that I'm not mad and no hard feelings and all that, I changed the topic title to something that has none of my opinion in it…oh, wait, there we go, changed the titles for both. Hopefully that helps, but do know that these still aren't meant for you…they're to see if there is a problem at all. If that happens, I'll make a new board for you admins.

[Lingster]

Three points:

1. You need to understand that it costs me time and money to do what I do here, and that my sole motive for this expenditure is that I enjoy it.
2. When I come up with ideas that will increase the reward in enjoyment and/or cashflow that I receive from doing this, I will pursue them.
3. Within the constraints of those first two points, I try to be as flexible, responsive and courteous as I can be.

I am willing to delegate nearly all authority regarding the content and conduct of this forum, but "structural" issues like whether I place ads on it, the URL where it lives, the kind of database it uses, etc, are entirely up to me because I am the one who bears the expense and the responsibility of maintaining it and growing it. 

Your objection to the "sex ads" was overheated and silly – you don't have to look at them. The decision to keep "sex ads" off the forum was revenue-negative for me, but I chose it anyway because I didn't want to offend forum readers.  That you were eager to take offense regardless is a mark against you, not me.  Users can bookmark the forum and log in here, so after the first visit to the site there is no need to ever load the front page again if the user doesn't want to.  As it stands now, only Google AdSense ads are shown on the forum, and Google polices those ads for objectionable content.  (I'm pretty sure you have no general objection to buxom, scantily-clad young ladies flexing their muscles and posting the photos on the internet, so I'm not even sure what got your dander up about the front page.)

Regarding the number of boards and their topics, I am entirely open to change in those areas.  The forum clearly needed expansion as part of the move, and I made the best guesses I could, based on topics that I see discussed here and on similar forums.  I expect there will be quite a bit of change in the topics over the next few months, just as there was considerable fluidity at She Grew! in the months after it launched last year.  These things take time, and there's no quick way to get it right.  My good choices will thrive and possibly split into multiple boards; my bad choices will wither and be cut.  Moderators and forum members will suggest new forums, some of which will be tried – they will go through the same life cycle as the ones I came up with.  I've never been rigid about topics or format before and I'm not sure what I did that merited being accused of it this time.  The likely answer is that you haven't been part of our merry band long enough to know me, and you didn't make an attempt to learn about my reputation before you popped off.  Most of the regulars here trust my judgement because I've done right by them numerous times over the last ten years.

I had to make this move – I lost confidence in Webair and and concluded that continuing to host She Grew! at Webair was a significant operating risk.  The compressed database alone was 16 mb with 6500 users, and there was a fair amount of MySQL and PHP reading that I had to do before I was ready to make the move.  I did a trial run on a test site the week before I did the move here – planning, testing and execution were very time consuming.  The Mambo and SMF cascading style sheets had to be reconfigured to avoid conflict, which require a test installation of the forum here at Amaz0ns the day before the actual move, which in turn required a full db backup of Amaz0ns and a file backup, too, since Mambo code had to be altered.  I performed the actual move in the most cautious and courteous way I could – all posts, private messages and user ids were preserved, and the outage lasted less than twelve hours.  The actual move took only two hours but I spent three hours double checking my work beforehand and then several hours testing the site before I reopened it – I took a personal day to do all this.  I've spent time over the last three days helping the handful of people who have had trouble logging in. 

These were not easy things to accomplish.  I'm not Yahoo.  I don't have an IT staff or a design staff to help me out with things like this.  I have to rtfm and carefully experiment.  I still have not mastered Mambo or SMF – I learn new stuff every day.

If someone had valid, substantive criticisms about the way I performed the move, even though those criticisms were in the "structural" realm, I would listen to them without complaint.  So far no one has offered any.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I’ve been too wordy. I wrote out a long response, but then realized that since I was repeating myself several times throughout, so I thought that I should just make it simple. Maybe that way you won’t get lost in what I’m saying. List form is easy:

1. The threads I’ve started here are not for you or any other admin. I posted them for members to see IF  anyone else had this problem. IF the majority of the responses from individuals were in agreement, then I would let you know. IF they disagreed, this topic would be left for dead.
2. The sex-ad comment was for two reasons:
–the site is no longer work-safe.
–I am curious if others think the sex ads will bolster or hurt new membership sign-ups.
This has not, never has been, and never will be about MY PERSONAL VIEWS on seeing sex ads. Nothing in any of my posts even HINTS at that. I can ignore them until the cows come home…but that doesn’t make them work/school/library safe, which is what this board was about. Let me quote my very first post here: “If you surf this at school or work, now you’re going to get in trouble.”

Okay, to recap:
–Sex ads = not work safe.
–Board created to see IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF there was a problem as seen by OTHER MEMBERS. This was NEVER created for you or the other admin.

With talk like “The older members trust my judgment,” “I’m a grown-up man with a job that doesn’t involve watching children,” and “These were not easy things to accomplish.  I'm not Yahoo.  I don't have an IT staff or a design staff to help me out with things like this,” it makes me wonder if you aren’t reading what I’m saying so you can have an excuse to keep up with a conversation that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Basically, I’m wondering if you’re just too arrogant to admit that you were wrong for
1) accusing me of not offering constructive criticism (I was never offering you anything, this was for MEMBERS and NOT ADMIN)
and now 2) accusing me of creating this topic because I personally just don’t like sex ads and like to complain

Everything you’ve said here is 100% unnecessary, but your latest really has no point in being here because you COMPLETELY ignored what I wrote in both my previous comment and my first post on this thread.

Maybe you’re not arrogant at all…like I said, it’s just an impression, I could be 100% wrong and honestly I wish and think that I am because I don’t see you acting like this to anyone else in any other thread (including me). Maybe you’re treating this site as your baby. You did put a lot of effort into it, and maybe you’re just still mad from the original titles of these threads…I don’t know. But that would explain why you’re still upset even though I told you that neither thread was made for you. Maybe that’s why you didn’t read what I wrote and just (incorrectly) assumed what I was trying to say…because you were still mad that you saw someone insulting your baby. I don’t know, it’s just a thought. I’m simultaneously annoyed with the fact that I have to keep repeating myself in a conversation that shouldn’t have existed in the first place, and I’m also insanely curious as to why we are still having this conversation even though I made it perfectly clear that none of this was directed towards you at all.

Hopefully a shorter post will fix this little reading problem. If not, then delete the stupid board. You think (and have said) that you can run this however you damn well please…which is more than true, but you sure have a funny way of conveying that, what with a feedback forum and all.

To recap:
–Sex ads = not work safe.
–Board created to see IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF there was a problem as seen by OTHER MEMBERS. This was NEVER created for you or the other admin.

And let’s recap again, so you have absolutely no excuse to not perfectly understand what I’m trying to say:
–Sex ads = not work safe.
–Board created to see IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF there was a problem as seen by OTHER MEMBERS. This was NEVER created for you or the other admin.

[Lingster]

OK, fine.

1. Ads for pay sites, aka "sex ads"

[Anonymous]

You are trying to convince me, and everybody else, that your purpose was to speak for those who have no voice, or something similarly noble.

Oh, goodness no! That would be retarded. You see, to be speaking for "those who have no voice" I would have to be speaking something…I'm asking something. I didn't come up to you and say "There is a silent majority, dear sir, and they request that you remove these ads." I was simply asking if anyone else saw it as a problem. That's all. There is a difference, and if you don't see it, then you don't see it. Don't start assuming that I'm trying to be some noble member or something. If I was, I'd tell you, but quite honestly I'm not stupid enough to assume that I speak for the majority…hence this post, to ask if I was the only one who saw a problem. I know that I absolutely might be the only one who saw it as a problem. I never claimed to speak for any kind of majoirty or minority or anyone else who wasn't me. That is ridiculous. Please stop assuming things about me.

I brought it up because I know that not everyone speaks up about things, or they see it as a problem and they don't really say anything. In one of my posts, two people said the same thing, which made me realize that yeah, I did have a problem with it, too. I figured was something I just had to get used to until they brought it up, and I thought "Well, yeah, I see it as a problem, they see it as a problem…if more people do, let's bring it up to the admins." Since I know that others bringing things up can remind us that we can say something, I decided to make a separate post for it in case anyone else felt the same way.

Nothing noble, nothing admirable, no speaking for anyone…merely asking everyone. Like I said, I see it as a difference, but if you don't, then you don't, but if I tell you my intentions then please don't still assume that I'm trying to do the opposite of what I'm saying.

If the ads pay for the site, so be it. That's beyond an acceptable answer, no blog checking for yours truly when she's at work. Feel free to delete this post because we have an answer. I still say that there are certain parts of the site that are not work safe, but you are concerned with the site as a whole, which is different. And honestly, if that's what you're concerned about, then that's what you're concerned about and there's nothing wrong with it. Your focus is on the whole, mine is on a specific part. It makes sense that you would be more concerned with the whole, which is why you never saw it as a problem in the first place. That takes care of that. 🙂

What's said has been said, and your decision is your decision. You gave me an answer that I said is "beyond acceptable," so that's good enough for me. While I didn't intend for you to respond to this post as I didn't mean it for you, you did give me an answer as to your feelings on the ads, and since you are the head honcho, then that's that. This is your site and I never wanted or claimed to want to tell you how to run it. You're doing a just fine job and the site runs well, your programming is running smoothly (I haven't run into any glitches here or at SheGrew). All I was trying to do was to see if anyone felt the same way I did, but if you don't feel the same way then that's really the most important thing (and now that I realize that, I realize that these "members only, no admin" posts are completely unnecessary). I'm not trying to be facetious or anything in the least, I'm trying to show you that I accept your answer and consider this thread to be closed and the "problem" solved. I hope you don't read into this response, I'm telling you exactly how I feel. 🙂

So yeah, delete this post and the other one. You're right: if people have a problem, they will bring it up to you. I wanted to make this for people like me, who felt like they didn't have a right to bring it up to you until they saw that it was more than just them who had the problem, but if I'm the only one that feels this way, then these boards are not needed. :nods:

[TC2]

Guys, come on now.  Both of you are arguing for no reason at all.

Strawberry, the more you try to explain yourself the more the point gets lost.  If writing is your forte, getting the point across is not.  Your post was fine at:

To recap:
–Sex ads = not work safe.
–Board created to see IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF there was a problem as seen by OTHER MEMBERS. This was NEVER created for you or the other admin.

End of discussion, no need to explain why you were saying something or why you were doing whatever because that's when the point of whatever the heck you were writing gets lost.

Lingster, You're looking too deeply into what Strawberry is saying, the thread though ill worded for attention was meant to see how many people on the forum think that the sex ads were now going to become a big problem that would make the forum a non-work/school/library safe area.  Her only concern was that with the sex ads, she will not be able to browse the forums at work and also wanted to know if any of us would also have that problem as well.

Now both of you need to chillax and go do something constructive instead of bickering with each other.

TC2

[Lingster]

I have enough problems without people inventing new ones out of whole cloth, TC2.

[y498yates]

Lingster – I just want to say that the decision to cut all sex ads was an extremely gutsy and, may I say, much appreciated move.  I know you are losing out on some big money and it is a testament to your character that you were able to put content and quality above the bottom line.  Bravo!

Berry – I hadn’t really noticed the ads because I am so used to just ignoring them.  Ads should be a generally accepted part of the free web experience by now.  I guess what I am saying is that it looks like the major objection you had [the sex ads] has been resolved.

In other news, I would like to say that I truly appreciate the hard work that goes into making this website what it is.  I think Lingster and his group of mods have been doing a first rate job.

This gives me an idea for a brand new website – beerpal.com.  I would like to deposit one beer in the accounts of each and every one of you!

Cheers!

[Lingster]

Well, there are no pay site ads in the forum but they're still on other sections of the site.  You're correct that they pay the bills.  Misty Anderson's site and Fitness Centerfolds are the only ones I advertise that have sexual content – Misty Anderson's is no-nude, but FC has some nudes.  I'm not married to FC, and may drop it due to poor performance.  Misty Anderson, on the other hand, is very popular and has good retention, so there's no way I'm dropping her.  Misty is our benefactor.  And there's far raunchier content in numerous forum posts here than in any ad I've ever shown.

Likewise, AdBrite text ads will be clean as soon as the next cycle starts – I may add them to the forum at that time.  Google ads are completely clean, so I have no problem sticking them everywhere they fit.  (though Google gets mad if you put more than three ad scripts on a single web document).

[Anonymous]

I have enough problems without people inventing new ones out of whole cloth, TC2.

:sigh: I asked you to not be condescending. Making mean comments about me to other people still counts, you know.
If I invented them out of whole cloth, then you are telling me that sex ads anywhere on this site that I find are 100% allowed by work, school, and the library.
It wasn't just an issue for me, it was for at least one other person (he commented here). But since it's not an issue for you, and you want them to pay for your site, then you're not going to take them off. That's fine. I'm asking you to stop insulting me because you didn't see it as a problem. Don't brush it off as some stupid idiot making stupid comments because you didn't see it as a problem.

[Author]

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