[cpbell0033944]

Sorry guys if my comments were misunderstood – there is undoubtedly plenty of research on the safety and efficacy of steroids as prescribed legally by a GP (UK) or MD (US), but this specifies lower doses and would check how effective the steroids were at easing the specific medical condition – what I am referring to is understanding the effects of high doses of steroids in healthy individuals for BBing purposes – these are two different scenarios.

[Trash Boat]

what I am referring to is understanding the effects of high doses of steroids in healthy individuals for BBing purposes – these are two different scenarios.

I guess there would be quite interesting information about that in old East German files.

[ant1937]

To answer the question on the drug testing in American sports…..the big moneysports. It is a joke. Easy to beat. Urine only and you are tipped off frequently. You just can'tgo nuts on hormonal stuff. look at the bodies in the NFL and you tell me. Talk about evolution…..how about since 1980? Amazing what guys must do. It is pure strength so it is somewhat food related as well.

[Tonus]

And as I understand it, the list of substances that they check for is still pretty small.  They test for most of the well-known PEDs (diabonol, stanazolol) but not much more.  Baseball's initial testing program was pathetic.  Players were given some advanced notice of testing, and would not be tested more than once a year (therefore, once you were tested, you could juice to your heart's content the rest of the season).  They weren't testing for designer steroids like the Cream and the Clear (BALCO's specialties) which means that a lot of players tested clean although they were still juicing.  There was a clause in the collective bargaining agreement that stated that if 5% of major leaguers tested positive, a different and tougher testing phase would begin.

In spite of how easy it was to get around the testing program that MLB put in place, SEVEN PERCENT of major league players (104!) tested positive and triggered the second phase.  The second phase wasn't much tougher than the first, and only pressure from Congress got them to at least add penalties with teeth.  Previously a player would not be suspended until a second positive test, and then only for 10 games(!!!).  Now, a player is suspended for 50 games for a failed test, 100 games (or 150?) for a second failed test after they return, and a lifetime ban if they fail a third test.  Even so, baseball doesn't test for HGH and a lot of PEDs.  The media and MLB try to act as if the 104 players who failed the incredibly easy-to-beat tests are the only ones using.  But anyone would understand that the fact that so many players failed indicates that usage rates are extremely high.

I remember that former player Ken Caminiti once claimed that as many as 50% of major league players used PEDs.  He was easy to dismiss as his drug use* led to the end of his big league career (and eventually his life).  When Yankees pitcher David Wells made a similar claim in his book, the backlash was so severe that he insisted that the figure quoted in the book was a mistake and that the real totals were much lower.  I get the feeling that the 50% number is close to the truth, and honestly would not be surprised if it was higher.

*Just to clarify, it wasn't steroids that led to Caminiti's downfall, but more common illegal drugs.  I don't recall if it was heroin or crack, I think it was heroin.

[GWHH]

Personally, as a Libertarians (biggest 3 party in the USA) I could care less if people want to take steriods, coke, crack, etc.  I mean of all the illegal drugs you can take.  Steriods is the only one if taken in proper dosages will acutally help you.  The rest just kill brain cells and cause you to do stupid stuff.  I'd rather have a guy taking steriods working next to me than taking herion or smokign weed before work.  Or rather have a hot babe taking steriods working next to me!!

[ant1937]

the number of MLB players using was actually more like 70%. Thye've expandedthe list of drugs they test for, butthe tests are so easily beaten.

As for the otherpost I do care if the guy next to me or on the roads is using drugs or building construction on drugs, but agree that roids are fine if not for competition.

[Trash Boat]

Thanks for your quick and comprehensive responses.

As you said, probably the worst juicers are in NFL and MLB, but those don't get much coverage here and I haven't keep my eyes on those. I just remember that there were some fuzz in baseball a few years back.

Sometimes I have seen physical attributes of some NFL players like Mario Williams or Vernon Gholston and it's pretty hard to believe that they would have achieved those without quite a lot of help.

But at least those guys have lots of knowhow how to use roids. I guess the teams have their own doctors and they know how the drugs are going to affect and where to keep their eyes on. It's a big business.

[ant1937]

They don't necessarily know how to use. Urine tests are a piece of cake. The roids sure didn't help Gholston. Most players dabble. Why do you think they so quickly agreed to urine testing? It is so easy to beat.

Manny Ramirez is an idiot to get caught. 8 million for 50 games. He'll still make 17 million just for the 70 games left.

[Tonus]

The irony is that Ramirez apparently did not test positive for any specific PED.  A test in the spring indicated that he had elevated levels of testosterone that were not natural (as an aside, I did not know that there was a way to distinguish between testosterone that is produced naturally, and that which is produced as a result of PED use).  This triggered an investigation, and MLB discovered enough paper evidence to show that Ramirez used hCG, which is on MLB's banned list because its use by a major league ballplayer is almost a guarantee of steroid use.

In spite of the fact that the Dodgers, like any ML team, have a full medical team available to their players, Ramirez traveled some 2,000 miles to find some obscure doctor who would prescribe hCG.  The fact that he did not fight the ban once baseball agreed not to charge him specifically with steroid use (the evidence of hCG use was apparently strong enough, and hCG use is sufficient to trigger the ban) indicates that he knew they had him dead to rights, but he figured that if the suspension wasn't specifically for steroid use he could make up an excuse that made it look like an innocent mistake.

That has pretty much backfired.  But as ant1937 said, he'll still make a lot of money this year (and next!).

[GWHH]

I believe steriods, when taken at normals doses to gain size and strength.  Are proably more safe than all that crap they sell at GNC & other supplments stores.  At least the steriods were tested and made by and at a real drug company.  That stuff from GNS is not regulated at all and is made of god knows what!  And the long term side effects are unknow. 

[Author]

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