[00tree]

I like it all accept for the part of only playing a character that is the same sex as the player. I like to switch back and forth playing male and female. Some people think it's weird but hey if I was so worried about what's not socially acceptable I wouldn't be on a message board for musclegirls. LOL!

[CONDORMAN]

Yeah it seems that the majority of people would want to play a female character. The reason I prefer people to play their own sex is because I had a game where a player had a character that was a sexual fantasy for him (a female fighter who would eventually prestige class into Kensal AKA:weapon master). It was during an oriental adventures game and he pulled a John Rambo (went off on his own). His character camped in a forest that was known to be dangerous without taking any precautions and was attack while she was sleeping. The character should have died but I allowed the other player characters to come to the rescue. As a consequence of that players foolish actions the female character had some scarring….eventually I would allow her scars to be treated but I hoped this would make the player reconsider before going off solo when the entire party needed to be there….Well the player after finding out his character was scarred and was no longer the beauty she once was wanted to tear up his sheet and play another character.

[00tree]

    Players goning solo is always a problem. You show up to play in a gaming group to play WITH THE GROUP. If you want to do a solo thing that's fine but as a player it's kind of rude to do. Hard on the game master and what kind of mesage are you sending your group. "Hey guys I want to play with you but don't want to play with you. It's in my caharacter". That's cool. It's fine to play a lone wolf type but most rpg's are set for groups to be a social event.
    With the situation you used as an example the player sould realize that what happened to him was ment to show him that it wasn't safe to go there alone. When someone tells you that the pan is hot and not to touch it I know a lot of people's first reaction would be to want to touch it but most people will heed the warning and not get burned. Also as a player your characters are finite. No matter how tough they think they are their still mortal and can be killed/destroyed.
    I myself am not a fan of messing with character stats and/or sex. Stuff like that can ruin the characters feel for the player so as a GM I don't do that because that's something that can kill a game and the goal is to have fun but if a character dies or gets thrown in jail do to a rash decision, it wasn't something I did out of spite, it was the people that YOU wronged or advice YOU didn't heed as a player.
    I just had someone leave the group that I play in because he entered a room and was about to be attacked when he wanted to say that he didn't enter the room that he just said that he stepped forward to speak. A huge arguement ensued and he left in a very childish fashoin. Oh well, his loss. It's a fun group to play in.
    These are some of the reasons I personally preffer to play as apposed to Game Master. But I still take my turn as a GM and try my best to make it fun for everyone. Ultimately that is the goal, fun.

[CONDORMAN]

comments from another forum…thought he had some good points perhaps others had these same questions so here is Boo's post and my answers…

Just remember, you asked for it… Wink

He heh… he he he he… heh heh. Well, I certainly bet you didn’t intend to run into anyone like me here. 20 years, 85% of which has been spent running games instead of playing them (sigh), with roughly 5 years of D&D, 5 of WFRP, and 10 with the various WW Storyteller systems, in that order. I also know Core D&D 3.x, though I haven’t really played it, along with various Palladium games, and probably a dozen systems you’ve never even heard of. Unfortunately I have only a vague, superficial knowledge of D20-Modern mechanics. Currently I’m working on my own FRP system using the original WW Storyteller core mechanics as a base. Working verrrrry slowly—seven years now I think it’s been… at least 5 anyway.

So with credentials duly submitted, it’s Hammer Time!

First off, you realize that pretty much every key physical change you’ve made in your setting is totally impossible without magic to explain it, right? (Or, alternately, extensive, purposeful tailored genetic engineering along the lines of “huge project of 1000’s of top scientists eating, sleeping, & breathing it for the last 20 years” or “what if Lex Luthor, Dr. Henry Pym (Ant-man), Dr. Hank McCoy (Beast), and Mr. Fantastic got together to…”).

This: With transportation a necessity of modern life people have reverted back to man powered technology. More people are bicycling, roller blading, or just using their own two feet for transportation. This has caused huge drops in the level of obesity in Americans.

+

This: Females are growing larger and developing more quickly. The average breast size in America increased from 34B to 36C during the end of the 20th century. This coincided with an increase in dress size. However, with environmental factors causing an increase in athletic activity as well as additional hormonal factors women of 2020 have an average breast size of a 38D yet there overall body fat has decreased.

+

This: The new generations of female champions possessed muscles of extraordinary sizes yet had none of the secondary male sexual characteristics of the early female bodybuilders that used steroids.

=

Does not compute.

Can’t be done on a chemical level; it simply will not work. Absolutely requires genetic engineering to cause those kinds of contradictory changes to take place.

Now, if you were going with “you are what you eat” and “sloppy science causing things to get… messy” then fine. But, and it’s the big but; meat producers don’t give a flying fuck about fat production, in fact, they actually want to cut it down. Fat isn’t meat; it’s a waste product cut off at the processing level. Sure, it can be used to make stuff, but no one is going to purposefully engineer an increase in any type of fat production for a byproduct that only has some secondary value. Producers only care about size and meat production vs feed input. So no big boobies for you! Wink

Second: What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, & vice versa. I.e.- congratulations, every woman is Wonder Woman… alas, every man would also be Superman (albeit a Superman with boobs Wink Razz ), so overall, no gains except the superficial. Use the basic rules and just assume everyone can break objects & injure non-affected living things to a greater degree. There, done; all it is is a superfical setting change. Albeit not the one you want… Razz

Third: The bullets had barely penetrated 3/8’s of an inch into Julia’s pectoral muscles. The bullets when removed were severely deformed resembling a flower blossom. Doctors hypothesized that because of her mitochondrial density the muscle flexed around the bullet crushing it as it entered.

…you do realize this is idiotic on a biological level, right? If someone’s muscle fiber density is high enough to stop bullets from doing any serious harm they’d have to have at least a 100 Strength in the D20 system. Plus, the reason modern bullet-resistant materials work isn’t because they’re dense, it’s because they distribute, absorb (muffle), and/or deflect the kinetic impact of a shot. Increasing density is the last way you want to go because dense = heavy, hard, inflexible, & prone to catastrophic failure (i.e.- shattering) if it’s hit at it’s break-point or harder.

So… either it’s some God(dess) waking up, a secret cabal of ancient Amazon Sorceresses defrosted from stasis, or, someone did this on purpose (or multiple someones). In which case, people would know it was done on purpose, if not necessarily by who, because only a complete idiot would miss the signs of tailored genetic tampering.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know; all you want is a setting where females have pretty faces, big boobs, and big frames with big muscles on them. But if I can quickly read this & realize it isn’t worth the paper it’s written on because it’s got all the plausibility of a piece of wet tissue paper, your setting is too flawed for any serious player to ever put up with, because they’ll be seeing the same inconsistencies I do, & they’ll want an explanation that’s better than “these are my half-assed reasons so I can make the setting the way I want”. Seriously, drop the pseudo-science bullshit and just bust out the tried-and-true “it’s magic, now STFU, ok?” At least then it works… Or alternately, the “some crazy genius released a retrovirus into all of the earth’s biosphere that was centuries ahead of it’s time, designed to radically re-write half of the human genetic code. It’s everywhere, everyone was exposed to it, and no one’s smart enough to figure out how to fix it. Deal with it…”

Fourth objection, again:

The bullets had barely penetrated 3/8’s of an inch into Julia’s pectoral muscles. The bullets when removed were severely deformed resembling a flower blossom. Doctors hypothesized that because of her mitochondrial density the muscle flexed around the bullet crushing it as it entered.

Do we really need this? Seriously. Still basically impossible except using magic, and stupidly ludicrous as well if your setting isn’t Superhero based. I need to start carrying around anti-tank weapons in order to deal with 1 more-or-less human being? Please, gimmi a break…

Now if it is a Superhero setting, well, fine and dandy, but as far as I can tell, it isn’t.

And last but not least, you overlooked some things that don’t seem too important to begin with, but actually are:

Increasing athleticism (usually) increases sex drive, increasing strength and physical prowess along with societal acceptance of it (usually) causes increased confidence, leading to increased sexual activity if the person is so inclined, if not necessarily the drive itself, and unless you’re using magic as the cause, the biological changes required will also result in increased sex drive. Basically, all these super-hot women are going to want to have a super-lot of sex (comparative to the “old numbers” under the previous female archetype).

You didn’t mention any geniuses coming up with a cure for AIDS or other STDs in your setting. A new sexual revolution could skyrocket STDs to epidemic proportions, and possibly result in new strains of old favorites, or even entirely new killer infections.

“Race” wars. Sorry, but again, unless magic is involved, there’s no way many third-world countries would ever accept these changes, let alone embrace them. Many, many cultures follow the rule “women exist to serve/be subservient to men”, “female circumcision” is still prevalent in many African countries, most Chinese peasants still put little to no value on “girl children”, and so on and so fourth…

Sure, it might take a while for the effects to “trickle down” to these countries if we stay with your crappy explanation for why it’s happening, but they invariably will. Someone is going to buy some of those “cows the size of rhinos/pigs the size of cows /chickens the size of pigs and that eat half as much” and introduce them to the local stock, or start up these alternate energy sources for their countries that require the bio-engineered stocks to make them work.

Once that happens, well, lookout folks, things will be getting messy.

These are things I quickly thought of that I’d want answers to in your setting. Got any?

Whenever you build a setting if you want to do it right the first rule is always “cover your bases” (or ass, it’s all the same Razz ). Don’t start with your superficial theme & work backwards from it to “make it work”, start with the foundation, making sure everything is plausible, firmly grounded in the mechanics of the system, and survives a reasonable “suspension of disbelief” test, and then work your way up towards your setting themes and points of interest. Otherwise, people like me can come along and rip it to shreds in a few minutes time… Wink Razz

As well, if you can manage to find it, I suggest you check out the old Aberrant game by White Wolf Game Studios. You could easily modify it to run your setting with little to no trouble, and I think the mechanics would better support what you seem to be going for.

Boo

Yeeouch Dude! I really think you need to get laid.

Your first argument is that women with larger breasts and lower levels of body fat could only be conceived by comic book scientists? Okay well here is an article that supports that women’s breast size has been increasing. I’ve taken the liberty of quoting it directly.

It's all for the breast
BY SASHA
I recall you writing a while back that you're always willing to discuss boobs, so here's a statistical question: I've noticed an apparent increase in big-busted women, D and DD cups seemingly more common than a few years back (or maybe it's just my declining eyesight). A statistic often quoted on the internet for North American women is: "The average bra size today is 36C, up from 34B a decade ago." Is this true? And, if so, what's responsible for this happy burgeoning? Changes in diet? An increase in cosmetic surgery? High-tech bras? More "background hormones" in our food? Wishful thinking? CURI-RUSS MYERS
"Actually," says Jennifer Klein, owner of the lingerie store Secrets From Your Sister (476 Bloor W.), "that statistic is inaccurate. The average breast size is not a 36C but a 34F." And it's rising! Says Klein, "last year it was a 34DD." Holy Toledo, by the year 2005 we're all going to look like novelty strippers.
Last time I spoke to plastic surgeon Dr. Stubbs, he told me breast augmentation was more popular than ever ("I'm doing two breasts and a labia every day," he said), which may explain some rise in sizes. But Klein says, "I can count on my fingers the clients we have with breast implants." One theory, supported by Klein, is that women's breasts are getting bigger because of growth hormones in non-organic meat and milk and the hormones in birth control pills, which are being peed out into our drinking water. "Here we see a lot of women from age 11 on who are really busty," says Klein. "Fifty per cent of the women are a D cup or larger."

The original article here: http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_01.30.03/city/lovebites.html

So if activity levels are increasing because of higher fuel cost wouldn’t it make sense that women would decrease their body fat bellow current standards….yet if breast size is increasing from hormonal factors as discussed in the article above wouldn’t that mean that even if they lost some adipose tissue from exercise that the women of 2020 would still have larger breasts and lower body fat than the women of the current era????

Second part …that female bodybuilders are larger and more muscular without secondary sexual side effects produced by anabolic steroids. This is all based on Myostatin research.  Testosterone and growth hormone produce muscle by effecting myostatin production however if myostatin is controlled without the use of hormones then presto chango….bigger muscles no sexual side effects

Here are some articles on Myostatin and Myostatin Mutation
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218392292&cat=1_2
http://www.gigtforeningen.dk/17C6BE62-AAE5-4A6B-A927-D60E99BA3945
myostatin for livestock production
http://www.qfac.com/articles/myostatin.html

Okay to answer the “if women are more muscular …then men are too” Well women possess and inert chromosome. There are arguments whether it is active or not. So my explanation is that this inert chromosome has allowed for direct manipulation of  myostatin in women where as men are lacking the genetic code that women have…the manipulation of the male gene is not possible. In  D20 AMAZON men can take myostatin inhibitors however females can be turned into a myostatin mutant. You said you are familiar with palladium well if you know Rifts then this my have similar repercussions to a Juicer conversion.

Inert chromosome in women
http://health.2theadvocate.com/index.cfm?pt=itemDetail&Item_ID=117810&Site_Cat_ID=7
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/11/5618
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1076699

Stopping bullets….mitochondria are considered the power house of the cell. If you would like I can draw a mitochondria under the effect of a densifier to illustrate A person with larger muscles has a greater amount of mitochondria. So if a person has been taking a mitochondrial densifier then the amount of  mitochondria is increased even more. So being shot is like breaking the surface tension of water and trying to penetrate something like sand. A spear or an arrow will penetrate much deeper than a bullet into sand because the velocity and the mass of the projectile. My reference was to a .45 ACP round which is a big slow round. Now if that was replaced by something else ….such as a Barret .50 cal then the bullet would not be as easily stopped.

Mitochondia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrion

You said someone would need strength of 100 for their body to stop bullets. I personally can’t think of any gaming system where strength has any barring on armor or hit points. D20/D&D bases hit points on Constitution, War Hammer Fantasy Role Play damage you can take is Toughness, and in Palladium it is Physical Endurance. In my game the rules to avoid damage from a bullet would be similar to damage reduction however there would be fortitude save required. And this would only be available to someone using mitochondrial densifiers.

Where the hell did you come up with the whole athletes are sluts idea??? The most athletic woman I know (also a state champion bodybuilder) is 28 yrs old and still a virgin…so in the next 16 years prophylactics disappear???

Interesting that you bring up the Chinese and no worth on females in the culture….did you notice the Asian with the big gun? She is a Taiwanese soldier who was Chinese born but adopted by agents from the Taiwan government for the Myostatin solder project. Ever heard the female of the species is deadlier than the male???? Basically cast away female Chinese are being turned into elite military by the Taiwanese.

[Vic]

Very nicely answered!!  This is clearly one of those individuals that needs their fantasy solidly based in "reality"  🙄 !  My answer would have been oil on a fire.  👿

[errant12345]

Really, any system is just an approximation of reality, usually with the emphasis placed on combat.  In D&D 3.5, a dire Elephant can run straight up a perfectly smooth wall without slowing down at all, simply because that's a situation governed by the "climb" skill, and Strength provides a bonus to climb.  A Dire Elephant's strength bonus is so high that they can basically defy gravity in this situation.  In other words, the realism of any given Tabletop Gaming System depends entirely on how well you know the system and how you can break it.

That being said, I think your explanation is sufficient for your purposes.  I think your intended playerbase will be perfectly willing to accept it.  It's SciFi, afterall.  It really just has to flirt with science, not be married to it.

[Cowprobe]

"It's SciFi, afterall. It really just has to flirt with science, not be married to it."

Consider yourself qouted errant12345, the best darn summation of fantasy with the trappings of repeatable results in reality I've read in a while. 

Very detailed and enlightening exchange between Boo and yourself phy911, it would be cool if you could pull a Steve Jackson level of factoid enrichment and provide a mini bibliography in the back of the netbook.

Rules lawyers should meet the fate of a Mark Newman story male antagonist.  😉

[ze fly]

Yeah it seems that the majority of people would want to play a female character. The reason I prefer people to play their own sex is because I had a game where a player had a character that was a sexual fantasy for him

Hey! This reminds me of a comic strip of the Virtual Fantasy series (in the french  Lanfeust mag).
Here is a link to the page:
http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/1220/vf13couleurscopie3ha.jpg

For those who can't read french, the female character says that her  back hurt like hell because of her breasts and that (s)he overdid it when (s)he created her caracter.  😆
And the elf girl says that the player must be a man because it's typical for them to caricature when they play a woman…
Note: the wizard adds that "it's the same in comic books: that's the kind of practical details which are neglected"  😀

[Author]

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