[btx]

Don Jack wrote:

fasola wrote:

Well, McGuinness’ and Romita’s art looks nice, but man that story is so lame, at least for me. I still can’t believe that Marvel decided to remove a good writer like Pak. For me his Planet Hulk storyline is awesome. They not only remove him, they then replace him with Loeb, who might have had amazing stories in the past, but lately he has lost his Mojo.

Like BTX said, JQ is really trashing thwe Marvel U.

What really pisses me off, is that each year a new event arrives, and we never get the chance to really see a good development on the aftermarth.

You do realise there are two Hulk books right? One by Loeb and one by Pak and the Red She-Hulk reveal happend in his book(Technically it also happend in Loeb).

Also, blaming Q for Pak leaving is stupid, because Pak wanted to leave and do the Hercules ongoing, it was his choice. And like him or not, Loeb sells and his book has been a top seller.

Also, the Fall of the Hulks and WWHs storyline are actually good(Probably thanks to to Pak, Parker and Van lente).

No offence, but get your facts straight.

btx wrote:

If this revelation is true (And I suspect it is) This REALLY proves that Loeb is a bad writer / plotter. He has not played fair with the readers in terms of placing his “clues” throughout the story. If Rulk is indeed Ross, he doesn’t seem to recognize or give two shits that his beloved daughter has been turned into a monster. Likewise Betty/She-Rulk doesn’t recognize her own father when standing face to face. Banner can’t recognize her either? WTF? She’s the woman of his life, who was married to him for Christ’s sake and it’s not as if her metamorphosis made her look like a cave woman or deformed. I suppose it will be chalked up to Doc Samson’s mad hypnotic skills which he never had before.

I think there has been a real deterioration of storytelling at Marvel over the last few years. As ‘event’ storytelling dominates the market, writers derail characters constantly just to come up with crap big twists and OMG shock moments that violate everything that has been built up over many decades. Civil War, OMD (ESPECIALLY OMD!!) The Rulk/She Rulk saga have featured some of the worst writing by formerly gifted scribes who really seem to be working for the paycheck and not a well crafted story. This is Joe Queseda’s true legacy.

BTX

You do know Ross didn’t know Betty was She-Rulk right? Infact, he was schocked when he found out and so was she when she saw it was her father. Fact is, she doesn’t look like Betty as She-Rulk, Banner doesn’t look like himself as Hulk either.

Also, the clues on Red Hulk being Ross were there and they were obvious. I mean, the military jargon, the fact that he said he has fought the Hulk longer than anyone and the fact he Called bruce a “Milksop”.

Blaming JQ for this is completely uncalled far and completely baseless. Besides, FoH has actually been pretty good. Especially with the character development they have given Banner and Making the Leader a credible threat, the rest of inteligencia too for that matter.

If she had a square jaw, hairy armpits and sideburns, then yeah I could see how her own father might miss a resemblance.

She Rulk is taller and redder and that’s it. She no more looks radically different that Jennifer Walters and She Hulk. At one point Bruce Banner – her former husband – looks right at her and doesn’t know who she is. And this is after he brings along a doo-hickey that supposed to tell if Betty is real or a LMD. What, he can’t do a scan of DNA? And he’s supposed to be among the top three smartest? That’s the problem with the saga… a lot of fake misdirection based on characters taking stupid pills.

BTX

[btx]

If this revelation is true (And I suspect it is) This REALLY proves that Loeb is a bad writer / plotter. He has not played fair with the readers in terms of placing his “clues” throughout the story. If Rulk is indeed Ross, he doesn’t seem to recognize or give two shits that his beloved daughter has been turned into a monster. Likewise Betty/She-Rulk doesn’t recognize her own father when standing face to face. Banner can’t recognize her either? WTF? She’s the woman of his life, who was married to him for Christ’s sake and it’s not as if her metamorphosis made her look like a cave woman or deformed. I suppose it will be chalked up to Doc Samson’s mad hypnotic skills which he never had before.

I think there has been a real deterioration of storytelling at Marvel over the last few years. As ‘event’ storytelling dominates the market, writers derail characters constantly just to come up with crap big twists and OMG shock moments that violate everything that has been built up over many decades. Civil War, OMD (ESPECIALLY OMD!!) The Rulk/She Rulk saga have featured some of the worst writing by formerly gifted scribes who really seem to be working for the paycheck and not a well crafted story. This is Joe Queseda’s true legacy.

BTX

[btx]

Prophet Tenebrae wrote:

My thoughts on the matter…

Short version – disappointing. Who reading this needs all the backstory we’ve HEARD BEFORE?! And if there WAS a place for backstory was it really in a 3 issue mini-series? No.

Same here. This whole Red Hulk/Hulked Out Heroes event would have been done and over in three issues of The Defenders or something. Didn’t like how the art changed. First few pages were acceptable, but when Red Shulkie turns up, it becomes cartoony, anime anatomy.

BTX

[btx]

The drama queens over at the DC Wonder Woman Message Boards are REALLY upset over this picture:

http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles/Wonder_Woman_Pencils_by_Don_Kramer

They’re upset because the new artists might give WW muscle and make her look “manly”, you know….. like She Hulk :blink: :blink:

BTX

I’m not sure if I can post a link to the DC Message Boards here. But you can go and see for yourselves. I find the Wonder Woman board especially hilarious.

[btx]

I’m gonna feel like a cheap used whore, but I’m gonna see it. :laugh:

BTX

[btx]

So…. when DC changes it’s heroes into apes, people cry “It’s Silver Age Crap”, but when Marvel Hulks out its heroes it’s called Genius?

BTX

[btx]

🙂 Great one, Alex.  😉 For my part, I only found this one.  :'(
She Hulk/Hulk original art pin-up by David Lee
       😮 😮 😮

BTX

[btx]

http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/11/21/american-gladiators-movie-has-a-plot-and-no-were-not-kidding/

Hmmm. Zap, anyone?

Shoulda done this in the 90's. None of the women will be big for this one.

BTX

[btx]

Yeah, it strikes me as a bit silly to bemoan the lot of muscular women in comics when they've really never had it so good.

As to Jen being dead… she was just hanging out with Rulk and Doc Samson when a gamma reactor went kaboom – which is clearly just to set up Jen as the #1 candidate for being She-Rulk… because presumably everyone has stopped caring about the identity of Rulk because they introduced a bunch of potential candidates and then went "Oh, actually – it's none of them."

To be honest, I get why some people are disgruntled with the addition of Lyra and now She-Rulk but as I said before, while it's clearly Marvel pushing characters at the expense of Jennifer, I can't really BLAME them for that. With Lyra and (I'll assume with She-Rulk) you're getting characters who are clearly defined and don't have thirty years of backstory that has given several quite different takes on the character.

Lyra even has her own schtick in that anger makes her weaker… and she has her "hulk fu". I'm sure She-Rulk will have her villain thing… Jen is subject to terribly fractious fanbase that could probably have a fight over anything you mentioned about her. I assume Marvel want a strong female to push as a Wonder Woman equivalent… or something and Jen just has too much baggage.

You know you could have said the same thing about The Hulk… He's Gray… He's Green… He's Smart… He's Dumb… He knows he's Banner…. He doesn't. There were may different "Hulks" over the years but Peter David came up with a brilliant solution: He's all of the above. I'm not saying that Multiple Personality Disorder would explain Jen's inconsistencies, but good writers have and good writers will pull together a character from different interpretations. Lazy writers say 'What The Hell' to previous interpretations and push for a 'Mary Sue' take on the Character to make them behave the way they want as opposed to whether or not any of it makes sense from their histories.

Lyra and Red Shulk may be 'clean' of Jennifer's history but are they really more interesting? Lyra is Green Thundra Lite… (Who's a Wonder Woman knock off) Red Shulk looks to be a return to the "Bad Grrl" days of the nineties with Big Boobs, Big Guns. Marvel isn't stupid: put A list artists like Ed McGuinness or Frank Cho it sells. But without that support would either character survive as stand alone concepts? As for the "fractious fanbase" I think that was always an inherent problem for the solo titles… and would still be the case with Lyra and Shrulkie. She Hulk/Jen has always been a good support character and team player and would work better in that environment… alas not in the "Dark" Universe of Joe The Q.

BTX

[btx]

But Lyra is actually pretty cool and the mini was good. How is she anything like a third rate wonder woman? No offence, but you're being bias there. As for Red Hulk, fact is that it is selling and this is business.     

The "Third Rate Wonder Woman" comment was directed at Thundra because that's what she is. The Lyra mini series wasn't bad by itself but there was  a "been there done that" feel to it. As for bias… 'course I've got bias. We all do. That's what makes forums fun.  🙂

BTX

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